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Draft Analysis: "A massive value-destroying error"?

PanthersATL

By PanthersATL,
in Carolina Panthers

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CRA Grand Master

CRA

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Shocker said:

White was a fuggin monster for Tamp last season and they got a ship.  Next meaningless stat shet

that chart is all about positional value to a team.  It's why the list is all LBs, DBs, RBs, and the right side of the OL.   That isn't how you go about building a team in the NFL.   Those positions are largely complimentary to team with the key ingredients.... that have a QB, OL that slants left, WRs, and a DL.  

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travisura Grand Master

travisura

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, CRA said:

If Horn becomes a Pro Bowler and Fields becomes a Pro Bowler.....it becomes a massive and epic failure.  Just because of the impact positionally.  Doesn't really have anything to do with the specific players mentioned. 

What is the hit rate on first round DBs vs first round QBs? Pretty bad on both.  Like everything else.   But if you don't have a QB...the QB scratch off ticket is generally going to be the right call over any other spot in the first.  Hindsight is hindsight.  Hindsight can make anything dumb. 

But it's not a good article. 

That's the thing. For better or for worse, we have a QB. A QB that Rhule & Fitterer value as highly or even higher than Fields. So the value of choosing yet another QB was not as high as picking a potential lockdown corner.

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CRA Grand Master

CRA

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, CarolinaLivin said:

Nothing against you, I just hate when people say this 🙂

true.  I don't like saying it.  But the league has designed it that way.    

I personally liked prior eras better. 

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Shocker Grand Master

Shocker

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, CRA said:

that chart is all about positional value to a team.  It's why the list is all LBs, DBs, RBs, and the right side of the OL.   That isn't how you go about building a team in the NFL.   Those positions are largely complimentary to team with the key ingredients.... that have a QB, OL that slants left, WRs, and a DL.  

So I guess we should use our first rounder on a QB every draft and we cool.  GTFOH

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CRA Grand Master

CRA

Posted
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12 minutes ago, Shocker said:

So I guess we should use our first rounder on a QB every draft and we cool.  GTFOH

Teams that have a hole at QB should.  I mean, that is what the discussion is centered around.   Not having a QB.

If you draft Cam Newton.....obviously you don't keep drafting QBs. 

 

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OldhamA Grand Master

OldhamA

Posted
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28 minutes ago, CRA said:

If Horn becomes a Pro Bowler and Fields becomes a Pro Bowler.....it becomes a massive and epic failure.  Just because of the impact positionally.  Doesn't really have anything to do with the specific players mentioned. 

What is the hit rate on first round DBs vs first round QBs? Pretty bad on both.  Like everything else.   But if you don't have a QB...the QB scratch off ticket is generally going to be the right call over any other spot in the first.  Hindsight is hindsight.  Hindsight can make anything dumb. 

But it's not a good article. 

You're missing the key component of this - what if Darnold becomes a Pro Bowler too?

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OldhamA Grand Master

OldhamA

Posted
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23 minutes ago, CRA said:

that chart is all about positional value to a team.  It's why the list is all LBs, DBs, RBs, and the right side of the OL.   That isn't how you go about building a team in the NFL.   Those positions are largely complimentary to team with the key ingredients.... that have a QB, OL that slants left, WRs, and a DL.  

In a passing league, CBs are incredibly valuable. So are DEs (or pass rushing DTs).

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Peppers90 NC Community Regular

Peppers90 NC

Posted
Posted
41 minutes ago, travisura said:

This is all based on player potential by position. If Horn becomes a perennial pro-bowler and Fields doesn't live up to the hype do we really call it a failure? 

Nope. I don’t think that chart correlated with how the perceived QBs actually performed.

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jayboogieman Grand Master

jayboogieman

Posted
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15 minutes ago, CRA said:

Teams that have a hole at QB should.  I mean, that is what the discussion is centered around.   Not having a QB.

If you draft Cam Newton.....obviously you don't keep drafting QBs. 

I disagree. Not all prospects play at a high level right out of the gate. Sometimes it takes guys more than one season to put it together, especially if they were drafted by a bad team. Taking another QB in round one right after you drafted one the previous year is a huge waste of draft capital that could be used to get your young QB a WR, LT, or whatever else. You have to give them a fair shake before you move on to the next one.

And trading a first round QB for a lower pick a year later is a waste of resources if you can trade him at all.

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klumme Enthusiast

klumme

Posted
Posted
35 minutes ago, CRA said:

If Horn becomes a Pro Bowler and Fields becomes a Pro Bowler.....it becomes a massive and epic failure.  Just because of the impact positionally.  Doesn't really have anything to do with the specific players mentioned. 

 

Unless Darnold also becomes a Pro Bowler, which this article do not mentions. I am sure we did not pass on a QB for a CB because we see CB as a more valued position. 

What they try to say is that a QB in NFL wins more than anything, which is correct. But their arguments har trash.

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CRA Grand Master

CRA

Posted
Posted
9 minutes ago, jayboogieman said:

I disagree. Not all prospects play at a high level right out of the gate. Sometimes it takes guys more than one season to put it together, especially if they were drafted by a bad team. Taking another QB in round one right after you drafted one the previous year is a huge waste of draft capital that could be used to get your young QB a WR, LT, or whatever else. You have to give them a fair shake before you move on to the next one.

And trading a first round QB for a lower pick a year later is a waste of resources if you can trade him at all.

Nothing to disagree with.  I didn't say you draft Cam Newton #1 and just give him one year to be great or draft another QB.

Bears were right to draft Fields.  After Trubisky had the opportunity and time show he wasn't the answer.   They shouldn't of drafted one in Trubisky's 2nd year. 

But we don't have a QB right now.  The rest of the world isn't going to view Sam Darnold as a first round draft pick and pretend like his 3 years starting at QB don't exist.  

 

 

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