How good are they really?

[BlackPanther21_]

Also if dont sign DJ just because he has had some drops and poo QBs that will push my patience with this franchise to the brink

[CarolinaRideorDie]

26 minutes ago, Waldo said:

Most of those players had some flashes of positives, not at all worried about them as players in itself (talent & ability). Carter looks like a backup at best but that is who he always was. Other than that, it looks like coaching and staff decisions has put everyone in bad spots. I just can't put it all on those guys, crap rolls down hill and they are at the bottom in the hierarchy of poop rolling. And yes coaching also includes working on cleaning up player techniques. 

This isn't to make excuses for the players. The coaching has been so bad, especially on the O, that it is just too hard to know how much the players played a part in the pooshow.  

The coaching is awful and headed backwards. Snow has shown positives but he has had no good answers for 2 big men up front getting run over, that's a huge issue. He also doesn't appear to be able to adapt to that challenge. That is very bad. I was excited for the positives he has shown but just 2 DTs up front has worked less and less as the year has gone on. He is looking like a failure if he can't change with the games we have left. 

I agree with this assessment the most. All of these players beside Carter have shown flashes of talent and physical ability to dominate in the NFL. Every one of these players issue is consistency and lack of focus, which speaks to lack of experience. Dropped passes by receivers, missed tackles by defensive players, playing out of position = lack of focus and poor coaching. Rhule may be a program builder, but I haven't seen him be the genius game planner that Belichick is and that is my worry about winning consistently for this franchise. 

[Brooklyn 3.0]

Here's what this team and franchise is great at ...

 

 

[Mr. Scot]

11 minutes ago, BlackPanther21_ said:

Also if dont sign DJ just because he has had some drops and poo QBs that will push my patience with this franchise to the brink

You know why Anderson got extended before Moore did, right?

2 minutes ago, CarolinaRideorDie said:

I agree with this assessment the most. All of these players beside Carter have shown flashes of talent and physical ability to dominate in the NFL. Every one of these players issue is consistency and lack of focus, which speaks to lack of experience. Dropped passes by receivers, missed tackles by defensive players, playing out of position = lack of focus and poor coaching. Rhule may be a program builder, but I haven't seen him be the genius game planner that Belichick is and that is my worry about winning consistently for this franchise. 

Distinguishing between guys who show "flashes" and guys who will become honest to goodness consistent players isn't always easy, but that's ultimately what coaches and personnel guys are paid to do.

[BrianS]

I like DJ, really do.  There's been a lot of chatter on the boards here about "hospital balls" being thrown by our QB.  When you start hearing footsteps as a WR, you start dropping passes and being less enthusiastic about running routes.  Sounds like where he's at.  Now, where I disagree with many of the Huddle masses is that many want to talk about those throws as QB responsibility.  I think a lot of that is part of the scheme.  You don't just scheme to get a guy open, you scheme to get him WIDE open.  This means that you actively scheme to drag defenders out of areas where they can take those big shots, or at the very least don't drag defenders into those places.  I've seen our scheme do both.

I've always seen the problem with Burns.  I think everyone can see his limitations against the run.  But against the pass, even when he's playing well, he is heavily guilty of overrunning his target, making it too easy for the QB to just step up.  I think he just needs to decide if he's an DE or a LB.  If he's a DE, he's gotta bulk up and improve his strength so he has a bull rush to go with the other moves.  If he's a LB, he needs to go to a 3-4 team.

Not sure what to make of Brown.  People expecting him to be Aaron Donald are surely disappointed.  I was hoping for Star.  Not ready to give up on him, but we do need to see him progress.

Our team has a problem with run defense.  I gotta be honest, it's damn near CRIMINAL to move Chinn further from the LOS when you know you are having trouble stopping the run.  I think our problem is that we don't have a real FS.  Burris is a SS, but not as good in the box as Chinn.  Burris however would be even worse as a FS.  Hopefully we fix that this offseason . . . somehow.

Robby was never worth what we gave him.  End.

Jermaine Carter is that guy who should sit on the bench and be that reliable backup who gives our starting MLB a breather.  He'd be great for that.

Snow is fine, but he's gotta get that run defense figured out.  I don't think he values run stopping DE's nearly enough.

 

[cardiackat88.]

48 minutes ago, Burnout189 said:

Honestly, with most of these guys, I'm betting it's the system implemented by the inept coaches more than anything.

In addition to this, I really think a lot of these players have mailed it in, given up, stopped really caring.

However you want to put it, I think they have lost a lot of motivation and are just ready for the season to end. Its felt like one incredibly long season and I cannot believe there is still so many games to play.

Edited December 2, 2021 by cardiackat88.
Typo

[Burnout189]

26 minutes ago, cardiackat88. said:

In addition to this, I really think a lot of these players have mailed it in, given up, stopped really caring.

However you want to put it, I think they have lost a lot of motivation and are just ready for the season to end. Its felt like one incredibly long season and I cannot believe there is still so many games to play.

Yep. this was my other big worry. I think with most of these guys the talent is there, but they have just lost faith in the coaching staff and their system. And honestly I can't freaking blame them if that is really the case.

[Mr. Scot]

29 minutes ago, BrianS said:

I think a lot of that is part of the scheme.  You don't just scheme to get a guy open, you scheme to get him WIDE open.  This means that you actively scheme to drag defenders out of areas where they can take those big shots, or at the very least don't drag defenders into those places.  I've seen our scheme do both.

One of the complaints about Moore has been that when it was his responsibility to help clear a route for other receivers, he's been lazy about it.

[OneBadCat]

I think since we're asking whether so many of our players are actually good its a sign that coaching and uninspired play is the problem.

Edited December 2, 2021 by OneBadCat

[4Corners]

Need to draft Sam Howell 

[Mr. Scot]

6 minutes ago, OneBadCat said:

I think since we're asking whether so many of our players are actually good its a sign that coaching and uninspired play is the problem.

I don't think anybody would argue otherwise.

[hepcat]

1 hour ago, Burnout189 said:

Honestly, with most of these guys, I'm betting it's the system implemented by the inept coaches more than anything.

That and a lack of motivation because the players know the coaches can't put them in a position to win by out-scheming the other team. 

[CRA]

Moore - DJ Moore is definately good.  Above average.   He without question is one of the best 32 in the NFL.  But I think he has a ceiling.  And he isn't going to ever be on of the top threats in the NFL.   So ideally, you hope to get a Jefferson/Theilen type situation.  Where he is basically Theilen in the relationship and have two #1s. 

Burns - definately good.  But defined as a specialist.  And great DEs aren't just pass rushers. 

Brown - jury is still out.  He is still only in year 2 and plays in the trenches.  He has the phsyical tools to be very good.  Think you have to allow more time in the trenches to judge. 

Chinn - jury is still out.  We see lots of guys shine out of the gates and their careers never carry over.  I'm still high on him.  I think moving him was a mistake.  We moved TD around too much early on.  It delayed him being great. 

Anderson - average WR.  That's what he has been collectively over the course of his career.   Essentially half of one season was used to totally redefine what all the rest of his career has said.   An average WR with great speed.  There are actually lots of those guys in the NFL. 

Carter - JAG.  

Snow - I think snow is a decent DC.  Probably the best coach on the staff.  Which isn't saying much. 

 

 

[Mr. Scot]

Curious whether anybody would be in favor of moving Chinn to linebacker...