Is the defense really performing that well?

[Panthercougar68]

It’s a good nfl defense. If you think it’s terrible you’re just wanting it to be. 2011 was a terrible defense.

The recent “blow outs” have been a number of turnovers and 4th down blunders late in the game IE Buffalo and Tampa.

[GoobyPls]

For todays NFL we have a top flight defense. It’s impossible with the offenses and rules to hold down an offense forever. Especially when your own offense is putting  the defense in bad positions.

 

How many unassisted TD drives have we gave up this season I’m willing to bet is near the top.

[Mr. Scot]

12 minutes ago, hepcat said:

The rush defense is terrible

If your defense is only good against the pass or good against the run but terrible against the other, it's terrible.

[Jon Snow]

No, still can't stop the run.

[OceanPanther]

The defense is really good on the first defensive series of the first half

[Basbear]

2 hours ago, MHS831 said:

20th in NFL vs. the Run.  Go back and take a gander at the QBs we have faced--and we have good CBs and S is not a glaring weakness--we really did not face too many stud QBs

The biggest issue no one is talking= DL. Its just not nasty enough, it reminds me of the weak-ass OL in the way they get bullied. Just like offensive is ran around CMC, the D needs Derrick Brown to cause havoc along with the need to be double. Hes has not on both, in fact took a step down form his rookie year. If he was needing the double- Fox, jones, and roy would look sssooooo more better cause they at least play with high effort. 

My hope is Nixon and Hoskins grow up fast, both have flashed. YGM is showing off the last couple weeks as well. All the talent is young. 

I think Rhule needs to fire DL and OL coaches. Or at min move them to another job. Need warlock OL coach and DL coach thats able to coach young players to the max. 

Also the strength coach needs to get better results, cause the strongest groups look W-E-A-K compare to other teams. 

[WOW!!]

Yes they are good.. Injuries and having to carry a bad offense has worn them down.. 

Look at the 1st half numbers of most games.. And the dropoff in the 2nd half after multiple 3 and outs bad field position and TO. 

You just want to be mad at every thing on this team if you can't recognize the difference in this defense and last years..

[davos]

We need to be better than against the run but we’re really more in the 10-15 ranked range 

[Kick]

2021 was a year of non-performance for the CP team.  The defense lacked intensity, strength and   the drive to stop runs.  Guys who will be back next year should get to the gym immediately for strengthening and meditation.

Can't have a winning team if the offense don't make every effort catch passes from a Quality QB.

We need "Total Restruct"

 

[top dawg]

10 hours ago, Mr. Scot said:

And don't give me the "ranked #2" bit. That's based on yards allowed and it's bullsh-t.

Yards allowed does mean something.

[top dawg]

The defense is basically playing well enough to win first of all. They aren't perfect though, but they are far from dog sh¡t. I think they're good, but they can be better. Their biggest issue in my opinion is snatching defeat out of the jaws of victory on third down. The lapses, penalties and missed assignments stick out like sore thumbs, and that speaks to a lack of discipline. But, I feel that there is a mitigating factor that affects their performance to a certain degree, and it's called the offense. When you have to play more snaps overall, including on short fields, instead of you tiring the opposition's offense out, they begin to tire you out, so whether you're good or not, your level of play is going to take a hit, and even if you are good, the "goodness" will be unsustainable.

Edited January 9, 2022 by top dawg

[BrianS]

8 minutes ago, top dawg said:

Yards allowed does mean something.

In isolation, it does not.  Saying that we give up very low yards is all well and good.  But it's not the story.  If your defense is allowing 60 yards a game, but giving up 30+ points, how is that relevant?

As I showed . . . somewhere in this thread . . . our defense has definite signs of life.  The problem is that they are put in awful positions.  Some of that bleeds into yards allowed.

It's sickening how many times we give our opponents the ball with less than 60 yards of field left to our goal line.  The stat is here, somewhere, but our defense is faced with the worst field position of any defense in the league.

However, that can make "yards allowed" look good, when in fact it isn't.  Our defense doesn't give up as much yardage, because there isn't as much to give.

Rhule clearly hasn't learned to value field position.  The result of field position is forcing the opposing offense to run more plays in order to get in scoring position.  It's more chances for your defense to make a play, or for the opposing offense to make a mistake.

Yards allowed means nothing in isolation.  It can reinforce or undermine the value of other stats, but in and of itself yards allowed isn't terribly relevant.

In the case of the Panthers, yards allowed, along with other stats, shows that there is a problem with other facets of the team.  We give up very low yardage per drive, very low yards per play.  But yet we're 19th in scoring defense.

And that's the stat that actually matters.  Don't believe it?  No problem, here you go with more stats.

This year, 11 playoff teams are locked in right now.  Of those 11 teams, exactly ZERO of them rank below us in points allowed per game.  Of the top 15 defenses in football, do you know how many have been eliminated?  TWO.

There are seven teams still on the bubble.  How many of them have worse scoring defense than us, do you think?  Only three.  Of those three, only one control their own destiny.

Scoring defense is the stat that matters.  Yards are only helpful in identifying strengths and weaknesses. 

 

[top dawg]

11 minutes ago, BrianS said:

In isolation, it does not.  Saying that we give up very low yards is all well and good.  But it's not the story.  If your defense is allowing 60 yards a game, but giving up 30+ points, how is that relevant?

As I showed . . . somewhere in this thread . . . our defense has definite signs of life.  The problem is that they are put in awful positions.  Some of that bleeds into yards allowed.

It's sickening how many times we give our opponents the ball with less than 60 yards of field left to our goal line.  The stat is here, somewhere, but our defense is faced with the worst field position of any defense in the league.

However, that can make "yards allowed" look good, when in fact it isn't.  Our defense doesn't give up as much yardage, because there isn't as much to give.

Rhule clearly hasn't learned to value field position.  The result of field position is forcing the opposing offense to run more plays in order to get in scoring position.  It's more chances for your defense to make a play, or for the opposing offense to make a mistake.

Yards allowed means nothing in isolation.  It can reinforce or undermine the value of other stats, but in and of itself yards allowed isn't terribly relevant.

In the case of the Panthers, yards allowed, along with other stats, shows that there is a problem with other facets of the team.  We give up very low yardage per drive, very low yards per play.  But yet we're 19th in scoring defense.

And that's the stat that actually matters.  Don't believe it?  No problem, here you go with more stats.

This year, 11 playoff teams are locked in right now.  Of those 11 teams, exactly ZERO of them rank below us in points allowed per game.  Of the top 15 defenses in football, do you know how many have been eliminated?  TWO.

There are seven teams still on the bubble.  How many of them have worse scoring defense than us, do you think?  Only three.  Of those three, only one control their own destiny.

Scoring defense is the stat that matters.  Yards are only helpful in identifying strengths and weaknesses. 

 

If you read my post above, you should be able to see that I basically believe we have issues of consistency, discipline--i.e., coaching, including player accountability--and the fact that our offense is sh¡tty which directly affects our defense. I never said that yards allowed means everything or the only thing, but in general it's not a bad thing, but all these issues are where the disconnect is with our defense that can be good with better coaching and execution.

Edited January 9, 2022 by top dawg

[Khyber53]

21 hours ago, Mr. Scot said:

I hear a lot of people talking about this team say, "Well at least the defense is good."

Is it, though? 

The defense I've been watching since Week 4 or so has shown occasional flashes, but they've been far from consistently good and have been basically run over on several occasions.

I know some will say "That's because the offense can't stay on the field". And while it's true they can't, that doesn't really excuse defensive letdowns in the first half or the third quarter after they've had all of halftime to rest and (allegedly) adjust.

I'd throw in that I think praise for Phil Snow is overblown. It only took most teams a couple of very easy adjustments (keep in extra blockers, run at our smaller defenders) to blunt the effectiveness of his attacks. And if he's made moves in an attempt to counter those adjustments, I haven't noticed.

So tell me, is the defense really as good as some are saying or is it just an illusion?

I've been pounding on that drum since the Dallas game when we were exposed for being soft. Heck, our defense looked soft against Houston... Houston.

Statistcally we're near the top of the league, but a lot of that came from our five wins against wounded or wasted opponents. If a team was even trying, they could knock our quick but soft defense on their asses. Our offense wasn't getting back on the field because we could not get turnovers or make stands on third downs. 

Our defense was our best asset, so it looked really good in comparison to our flaccid offense and our Keystone Cops special teams.