The drought is getting pretty long

[Toomers]

1 minute ago, kungfoodude said:

These teams rarely intentionally tank. They tank because they have incompetent leadership.

We are an example of a successful tank(2010) but that is far from the norm. 

Also, we didn't gut the roster like we did after 2019. That is something that you rarely see in the NFL.

Exactly. When you do it as an overall plan, a turnaround can happen quickly. Just like the 5 examples in the last decade I’ve given. What’s the last team to do it and remain picking top 5-10. If its rare that tanking works, should be plenty to choose from. 
 

   And they sure did get rid of a bunch of old, overpriced vets. But that’s not scorched earth when the team spends all its cap space on useless different vets. 

[kungfoodude]

4 minutes ago, Toomers said:

Exactly. When you do it as an overall plan, a turnaround can happen quickly. Just like the 5 examples in the last decade I’ve given. What’s the last team to do it and remain picking top 5-10. If its rare that tanking works, should be plenty to choose from. 
 

   And they sure did get rid of a bunch of old, overpriced vets. But that’s not scorched earth when the team spends all its cap space on useless different vets. 

We also got rid of the core of the reasons the franchise had success. That's what I mean. If you purge to that level, you need to have a winning culture you inject. We did the exact opposite of that.

But I think we fundamentally disagree on the "rebuild vs. retool." New England hasn't been rebuilding. They retool every offseason. That is what a competent organization does.

We are as far from being competent as possible.

[davos]

7 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

That was why I was so skeptical it could ever work. TBH, it probably will lead to an almost decade long slump. 

When it was a guy (Rhule) without real NFL experience for knowing the speed and true type of guys that work, it allowed for some poor backfilling to occur.   A good amount of backup spots and ST guys that an experienced staff would have filled in appropriately didn't occur who could of kept this afloat.  

Speaking to guys like Larsen (perfectly fine backup center), Mayo, Obada, Addison, Daryl Williams.  Never understood why we never gave Daryl a true investment like Buffalo did.  Those guys were the unheralded dudes that kept us respectful on the lines. 

Could've also just let Newton run his contract out that one freaking season and then find the handpicked QB we wanted to maybe groom behind him.  And then this season wouldn't of felt so desperate.  Could've saved so much time and investment without TB or Darnold and a lot of other pieces like Robbie, Reddick, etc. 

[Mr Mojo Risin]

5 hours ago, onmyown said:

Yea but cam TD and Olsen all went on the play like trash and their contracts were expiring, you you rather of signed them all farewell/twilight contracts and pretended it be a good team?

I think Luke’s unexpected retirement  definitely hurt though.

but still I don’t think this was the issue, the issue was the fact the panthers never invested in drafting gross replacement, letting Hurney totally fug the cap, never Planning ahead for cans replacement, Tepper keeping Hurney, and then hiring Rhule.

These are the issues that kept us in hell.

Cam had 3300 yards and 21 Tds for an offense that had less talent than a HS team in a covid year and still won more games than this trash team the last 2 years you should be praying we have that kind of success next year at the qb position

Edited January 16, 2022 by Mr Mojo Risin

[Toomers]

14 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

We also got rid of the core of the reasons the franchise had success. That's what I mean. If you purge to that level, you need to have a winning culture you inject. We did the exact opposite of that.

But I think we fundamentally disagree on the "rebuild vs. retool." New England hasn't been rebuilding. They retool every offseason. That is what a competent organization does.

We are as far from being competent as possible.

NE ate all their cap issues last year. Plus a bunch of opt outs. They were going into the season with Jarret Stidham at QB and a ton of cap space to carry over. Even paid Gilmore early so he would be easier to get rid of this year. That’s a tank. Until they signed Cam. Even then they just went with whatever they had. And when Edelman got hurt and D. Byrd was his top WR, they didn’t run out and spend money. Where do you think they got all that money to sign 2 WRs, 2 TEs, and Judon and more. 
 

   So wasting 80M in cap space, in one off-season, isn’t as important as a winning culture. Because that sure didn’t work and has put the team in an even worse position than it was when this was started. Which one of those players they overpaid was going to instill that on a young team? 

Edited January 16, 2022 by Toomers

[davos]

I hope a lesson learned for Tepper is go for a guy with an extensive network that can attract players and quality coaches.  Rhule doesn't seem to have much pull at all in NFL circles.  

The Bengals ownership had a big press release after deciding to keep Zach Taylor after year 2.  Wish Tepper could at least do the same and explain his decisions.  It would help shed some light if he's being stubborn, incompetent, overly-patient, or whatever with Rhule.  Could help keep the fanbase from deteriorating into a madness of apathy and disgust.  

If I bought a company, I don't want my handpicked manager firing all the guys he brought in and trying to save face with the same guy just bringing in a bunch of new subbordinates.  It's bullsh*t.  

[Prowler2k18]

8 hours ago, LinvilleGorge said:

We're the worst organization in the league right now. Tepper was right when he said you have to have a GM, a HC, and a QB. Unfortunately, he failed miserably in putting together his football organization and now here we are.

I think he got the GM selection right - just a year too late. IMO Tepper’s 1st mistake was not getting rid of Hurney along with Rivera. If he had, we’d have probably gone a different direction with our HC search and who knows what would happen. We’re here now.

[R0CKnR0LLA]

We're only in year 2 of a 12 year rebuild, be patient guys.

[Snake]

9 hours ago, Castavar said:

Well yeah, that too. Suffice to say, as of now we have a bottom 5 owner

Too soon to tell imo. He's screwed up pretty bad out the gate though. 

[DaveThePanther2008]

13 hours ago, kungfoodude said:

I also want to be clear that I was dead set against the idea of a massive rebuild in 2020. Partly because of what came to pass, it is usually hard to pull up from that nosedive because you don't have good people making the decision to tear everything down to the foundation. 

That is NEVER a wise choice in the NFL.

Exactly.  I think what makes it worse is that Rhule was able to get complete control.   For the most part I think we've drafted well and the judgement is still out on whether those picks will be good ones but IMO they are OK.  That said, it doesn't matter how well you draft and what FA you bring in if you staff is unable to get the best out of our talent. 

Rhule's stubbornness is far worse than Rivera's, which is saying a lot.  When it was clear that we weren't going anywhere this season.  He should have put Christensen and Brown in the lineup and allowed for them to grow instead of playing players that have zero upside.  

His Coaches, at  least offensively, are terrible.  So on and so on.

 

[Move the Panthers to Raleigh]

12 hours ago, Mike in Raleigh said:

I hope we eventually get our act together. I won't be around in 31 years waiting for a playoff win.

If you quit drinking and eating junk, you may see the next Panthers playoff win

[SmittysLawnGuy]

Do you know how shitty it is to live a couple hours from Tampa but this team runs through your blood? You'd think 25 years here would allow me to root for a decent team but nope. I'm stuck with the rest of my Carolina brethren in this cesspool of the worst few years of our existence. I've missed 1 game since 95' I purposely missed 2 this year because I'm losing hope. At least I've always had a reason to say next year. Think we may be the worst team in the league next year. Does that count? Florida Man out, thinking about doing Florida things!

Edited January 17, 2022 by SmittysLawnGuy

[SmittysLawnGuy]

My poor son 22  was born here in Florida but loved my love for the Panthers and he is die hard. I hate that I cursed him with this obsession for let down.

[SizzleBuzz]

Too funny...

...a 4-season playoff drought is absolutely nothing...from a Panthers perspective...and especially from an NFL perspective!

Panthers went 6-seasons from 1997-2002...and had a 4-year miss from 2009-2012 which was part of a 1-for-7 run in 2006-2012. 

In terms of NFL history fully 21 teams have 10-SEASON (or more) playoff droughts...the Buc's and Jets twice each, and the Lions 3 times!

"7-years" might not be so bad

Edited January 17, 2022 by SizzleBuzz