Jump to content

  • Welcome!

    Register and log in easily with Twitter or Google accounts!

    Or simply create a new Huddle account. 

    Members receive fewer ads , access our dark theme, and the ability to join the discussion!

     

A draft/trade question for my fellow Huddlers. Is a franchise QB worth (3) #1 draft choices?

SCO96

By SCO96,
in Carolina Panthers

 Share

Recommended Posts

MHS831 Grand Master

MHS831

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

Would a franchise QB who can pick where they go come to a team that gave up 3 of their best players for him. Particularly to a 5-12 team like ours. He would rather go to a good team who is a contender.

Good point.  I was using the players to help visualize the value of these picks--but you are right--

  • Pie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
BrianS Veteran

BrianS

Posted
Posted
5 hours ago, MHS831 said:

Would you trade Burns, Brown, and Horn for a franchise QB?

Established?  Young?  Yes.  It would be a hard call, very hard, but franchise QB's are ridiculously valuable.

Let's say Herbert, and build it up.

Herbert for Burns?  In heartbeat.  No regrets.

Herbert for Burns and Brown?  Yep.  I would.  No problem.

Herbert for Burns, Brown and Horn?  Hard.  Not because of Burns and Brown, but because Horn may be Richard Sherman or Darrell Revis.  I'm not ready to crown him, but boy was he looking good.  Locking down half the field might be the second most valuable asset in the league because like QB's, there are so few who can reliably do it.

  • Pie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
CanadianCat Veteran

CanadianCat

Posted
Posted
7 hours ago, Mr. Scot said:

There's no more "right position" than being in a place to take the first quarterback overall.

Yet teams that have been in that place have taken guys like JaMarcus Russell, David Carr and Tim Couch among others.

Those examples would make me think that being smart is...well, kind of important.

I think your using hindsight to justify us being dumb and other being smart. The draft is not a guarantee. A prospect is just that. 

JaMarcus Russell was evaluated by Payton Manning's QB coach who has said on record many times that Russell has the best arm he had ever seen. Ever. 

Sometimes teams look 'smart' only because that player fell to them eliminating their other top options before them. 

  • Pie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
CanadianCat Veteran

CanadianCat

Posted
Posted

Also positional value is a factor as well...

The best pick you can do on paper is draft a QB in the 1st round every year. Every year. Cause their value is so much more important than any other position. Even if that player doesnt pan out, most former 1st round QB's trade for an equivalent value. 

Obviously no one will do that but if we are talking in theory here, thats that smartest move. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Mr. Scot Grand Master

Mr. Scot

Posted
Posted
28 minutes ago, CanadianCat said:

I think your using hindsight to justify us being dumb and other being smart. The draft is not a guarantee. A prospect is just that. 

JaMarcus Russell was evaluated by Payton Manning's QB coach who has said on record many times that Russell has the best arm he had ever seen. Ever. 

Sometimes teams look 'smart' only because that player fell to them eliminating their other top options before them. 

Our last two quarterback decisions were signing Teddy Bridgewater and Sam Darnold.

Would you suggest their failure was just "bad luck" or does it point to a problem evaluating the quarterback position?

Link to comment
Share on other sites
CanadianCat Veteran

CanadianCat

Posted
Posted
9 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Our last two quarterback decisions were signing Teddy Bridgewater and Sam Darnold.

Would you suggest their failure was just "bad luck" or does it point to a problem evaluating the quarterback position?

Teddy was a good idea that just didnt turn out. I would have supported us carrying him as our QB this year. 

Darnold... well when you dont have a QB you need to keep swinging for one. So I dont mind us taking a shot on him but I disagree with what we traded for him....that said.... had he finished as a top 15 QB this year we would be singing Rhuhles and Bradys praises. 

 

Im an optimist my nature and I do think that with a better line and a decent OC there is a 'chance' that Darnold could turn the page... 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
SizzleBuzz Grand Master

SizzleBuzz

Posted
Posted
53 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:
1 hour ago, CanadianCat said:

I think your using hindsight to justify us being dumb and other being smart. The draft is not a guarantee. A prospect is just that. 

JaMarcus Russell was evaluated by Payton Manning's QB coach who has said on record many times that Russell has the best arm he had ever seen. Ever. 

Sometimes teams look 'smart' only because that player fell to them eliminating their other top options before them. 

Our last two quarterback decisions were signing Teddy Bridgewater and Sam Darnold.

Would you suggest their failure was just "bad luck" or does it point to a problem evaluating the quarterback position?

The "last two" were actually Cam Newton and Matt Barkley...

...signed 1-day apart.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
trueblade Grand Master

trueblade

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, BrianS said:

because of Burns and Brown, but because Horn may be Richard Sherman or Darrell Revis.  I'm not ready to crown him, but boy was he looking good.  Locking down half the field might be the second most valuable asset in the league because like QB's, there are so few who can reliably do it.

I sincerely hope you are absolutely right about Horn, but can I caution the Huddle to slow down on the Horn evaluation. Many parts of the team looked much better the first three weeks than they turned out to be over the course of the season. Imagine, for a moment, that it is Darnold who gets knocked out for the year in Week 3 rather than Horn. Most of the Huddle would have a very different view of Sam right now if all we had seen was the same three weeks we are crowning Horn for.

  • Pie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
BrianS Veteran

BrianS

Posted
Posted
5 hours ago, trueblade said:

I sincerely hope you are absolutely right about Horn, but can I caution the Huddle to slow down on the Horn evaluation. Many parts of the team looked much better the first three weeks than they turned out to be over the course of the season. Imagine, for a moment, that it is Darnold who gets knocked out for the year in Week 3 rather than Horn. Most of the Huddle would have a very different view of Sam right now if all we had seen was the same three weeks we are crowning Horn for.

I hope so too man.  You're right, I don't know on Horn and no one else does either.  But CB is one of those positions that typically struggle right away in the NFL.  Maybe he was just riding the overall play of the team, we'll see.

  • Pie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
SCO96 Veteran

SCO96

Posted
  • Author
Posted (edited)
13 hours ago, MHS831 said:

Would you trade Burns, Brown, and Horn for a franchise QB?

If I had players on the team capable of replacing them with no (or little) drop-off, and the rest of the roster was solid across the board, then I think I'd do it.  None of the guys you mentioned are irreplaceable.  However, if would have to be for an established guy (ex: Russell Wilson, Aaron Rodgers, Deshaun Watson...before assault allegations). I wouldn't trade those guys to draft a rookie ...unless...He was a generational QB...and even then I'd be hesitant.

Edited by SCO96
Link to comment
Share on other sites
OldhamA Grand Master

OldhamA

Posted
Posted (edited)
19 hours ago, SCO96 said:

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2022/01/18/2022-nfl-draft-order-eagles-hold-15th-16th-and-19th-overall-picks/

As you can see from the above link, Philly has 3 draft choices between picks 10 and 20. I don't think the Eagles are going to do anything drastic at QB this year. But, if you were the GM for the Panthers (or any team for that matter) and your franchise was a QB away from being a legitimate Super Bowl threat would you consider the making the following move(s)?

1) Trade all three #1 draft choices in one year to either move up in the draft to pick a stud QB?

2) Trade all three #1 draft choices in one year to acquire a stud QB in a blockbuster trade?

And,

If you were a GM for a team would you

1) Accept three #1 picks for a team to move up into your spot the draft?

2) Accept three #1 picks to trade a player you were looking to move? 

-------

San Francisco gave up a ton to get Trey Lance. The details are below. 

"The Niners essentially placed their future in Lance's hands, sending three first-round picks to Miami for the right to select the dynamic, dual-threat quarterback. San Francisco doesn't have a first-round pick until 2024 and is also out a third-rounder in 2022."

------

I could see doing this if you were only a QB away from contending for a title. The player you picked or traded for would in essence be your #1 pick and the other draft choices in later rounds would be intact. I couldn't see parting with any picks the following draft.

I could see doing it as a GM if there was a strong draft class that season. You could pick 3 blue chip players and pretty much control them for 5 seasons. If the picks were solid, a team could significantly better in a hurry.

Thoughts?

 

 

I would never trade that much capital for an unproven rookie.

If you're asking me I'd give three first round picks for Mahomes, then yes (but then we should have drafted him the first time round).

Edited by OldhamA
  • Pie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
 Share
Go to topic listing

  • PMH4OWPW7JD2TDGWZKTOYL2T3E.jpg

  • Topics

  • Posts

    • jfra78
      Xavier Legette is the face of the NFL at the Kentucky Derby

      By jfra78 · Posted

      I have more faith in XL improving than I do in Tmac being a true number 1 recuever
    • DaveThePanther2008
      PFF raves about our draft. The best class in the whole draft?

      By DaveThePanther2008 · Posted

      Round 1. TMac arguably the best WR in the draft Round 2. Scour ton mentioned as a possible 1st round edge.     Texas A&M did not use him the same way Purdue did. After the 2023 season he was listed as a first round grade. I believe had Texas A&M used him like they did at Purdue he never makes it out of round 1. Round 3 Princely Umanmielen, we'll go by Princely.  Another highly graded player we got in a lower round. As the video suggests, even if he plays only on passing down it's a positive. Give him a couple of years to develop a he could be a three down player.  Round 4a Etienne IMO a huge upgrade over Blackshear. I can see him in a similar role as CMC without the heavy workload. He can run in between the tackles and has some shifty moves. Give Canales some flexibility. A fellow huddler pointed out UGA running backs don't see the field if they cannot pick up the blitz. Really good pick. Round 4b Ransom a hard hitting safety that has played three different positions on defense. Great pick Round 5a Cam Jackson a massive NT in round 5. I believe a solid rotational pick in a lower round. We added a beast that could make offenses quiver when he's lined up with Brown. Great Value  Round 5b Evans This is another player that can block and has good hands. He also had better seasons before 2024. As a rookie he's probably leaps and bounds better than Ian Thomas. I think he gives us a three headed monster at TE.  Round 6 Horn Jr. Many believe he's just going to be a KR/PR player. I believe there are going to be packages for him to get on the field as a WR. His speed with TMac and Thielen in the slot could be special. I'm really looking forward to seeing him in training camp. I've watched some film and he is very explosive.  Overall I love our picks. I honestly believe all of them will contribute this season. I don't believe we reached on one player in this draft.  This weekend we get a small look at these rookies     
    • tukafan21
      Xavier Legette is the face of the NFL at the Kentucky Derby

      By tukafan21 · Posted

      You joke, but hasn't basically the whole team been in Charlotte this past week together? I'm not one to see the random dumb stuff players put out on social media in the offseason and think it means that's ALL they've been doing and not working on their game.  But it's a little strange that all this is coming out at the same time we're seeing tons of stuff with the team in Charlotte together, even if it's just working out and not even official team OTA's or anything. So he gets a pass from me saying anything now, but if he doesn't show clear improvement this season, it then opens him up to some retroactive criticism for some things.
×
×
  • Create New...