A draft/trade question for my fellow Huddlers. Is a franchise QB worth (3) #1 draft choices?

[panthers55]

5 hours ago, MHS831 said:

Would you trade Burns, Brown, and Horn for a franchise QB?

Would a franchise QB who can pick where they go come to a team that gave up 3 of their best players for him. Particularly to a 5-12 team like ours. He would rather go to a good team who is a contender.

[MHS831]

3 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

Would a franchise QB who can pick where they go come to a team that gave up 3 of their best players for him. Particularly to a 5-12 team like ours. He would rather go to a good team who is a contender.

Good point.  I was using the players to help visualize the value of these picks--but you are right--

[BrianS]

5 hours ago, MHS831 said:

Would you trade Burns, Brown, and Horn for a franchise QB?

Established?  Young?  Yes.  It would be a hard call, very hard, but franchise QB's are ridiculously valuable.

Let's say Herbert, and build it up.

Herbert for Burns?  In heartbeat.  No regrets.

Herbert for Burns and Brown?  Yep.  I would.  No problem.

Herbert for Burns, Brown and Horn?  Hard.  Not because of Burns and Brown, but because Horn may be Richard Sherman or Darrell Revis.  I'm not ready to crown him, but boy was he looking good.  Locking down half the field might be the second most valuable asset in the league because like QB's, there are so few who can reliably do it.

[CanadianCat]

7 hours ago, Mr. Scot said:

There's no more "right position" than being in a place to take the first quarterback overall.

Yet teams that have been in that place have taken guys like JaMarcus Russell, David Carr and Tim Couch among others.

Those examples would make me think that being smart is...well, kind of important.

I think your using hindsight to justify us being dumb and other being smart. The draft is not a guarantee. A prospect is just that. 

JaMarcus Russell was evaluated by Payton Manning's QB coach who has said on record many times that Russell has the best arm he had ever seen. Ever. 

Sometimes teams look 'smart' only because that player fell to them eliminating their other top options before them. 

[CanadianCat]

Also positional value is a factor as well...

The best pick you can do on paper is draft a QB in the 1st round every year. Every year. Cause their value is so much more important than any other position. Even if that player doesnt pan out, most former 1st round QB's trade for an equivalent value. 

Obviously no one will do that but if we are talking in theory here, thats that smartest move. 

[Mr. Scot]

28 minutes ago, CanadianCat said:

I think your using hindsight to justify us being dumb and other being smart. The draft is not a guarantee. A prospect is just that. 

JaMarcus Russell was evaluated by Payton Manning's QB coach who has said on record many times that Russell has the best arm he had ever seen. Ever. 

Sometimes teams look 'smart' only because that player fell to them eliminating their other top options before them. 

Our last two quarterback decisions were signing Teddy Bridgewater and Sam Darnold.

Would you suggest their failure was just "bad luck" or does it point to a problem evaluating the quarterback position?

[CanadianCat]

9 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Our last two quarterback decisions were signing Teddy Bridgewater and Sam Darnold.

Would you suggest their failure was just "bad luck" or does it point to a problem evaluating the quarterback position?

Teddy was a good idea that just didnt turn out. I would have supported us carrying him as our QB this year. 

Darnold... well when you dont have a QB you need to keep swinging for one. So I dont mind us taking a shot on him but I disagree with what we traded for him....that said.... had he finished as a top 15 QB this year we would be singing Rhuhles and Bradys praises. 

 

Im an optimist my nature and I do think that with a better line and a decent OC there is a 'chance' that Darnold could turn the page... 

[Ivan The Awesome]

Getting all that draft capital in a deep draft for O line....I'd rather take the 3 picks and FIX that damn problem in one draft. 

[SizzleBuzz]

53 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

1 hour ago, CanadianCat said:

I think your using hindsight to justify us being dumb and other being smart. The draft is not a guarantee. A prospect is just that. 

JaMarcus Russell was evaluated by Payton Manning's QB coach who has said on record many times that Russell has the best arm he had ever seen. Ever. 

Sometimes teams look 'smart' only because that player fell to them eliminating their other top options before them. 

Our last two quarterback decisions were signing Teddy Bridgewater and Sam Darnold.

Would you suggest their failure was just "bad luck" or does it point to a problem evaluating the quarterback position?

The "last two" were actually Cam Newton and Matt Barkley...

...signed 1-day apart.

[trueblade]

2 hours ago, BrianS said:

because of Burns and Brown, but because Horn may be Richard Sherman or Darrell Revis.  I'm not ready to crown him, but boy was he looking good.  Locking down half the field might be the second most valuable asset in the league because like QB's, there are so few who can reliably do it.

I sincerely hope you are absolutely right about Horn, but can I caution the Huddle to slow down on the Horn evaluation. Many parts of the team looked much better the first three weeks than they turned out to be over the course of the season. Imagine, for a moment, that it is Darnold who gets knocked out for the year in Week 3 rather than Horn. Most of the Huddle would have a very different view of Sam right now if all we had seen was the same three weeks we are crowning Horn for.

[Aussie Tank]

Definitely not a sex offender anyway 

[BrianS]

5 hours ago, trueblade said:

I sincerely hope you are absolutely right about Horn, but can I caution the Huddle to slow down on the Horn evaluation. Many parts of the team looked much better the first three weeks than they turned out to be over the course of the season. Imagine, for a moment, that it is Darnold who gets knocked out for the year in Week 3 rather than Horn. Most of the Huddle would have a very different view of Sam right now if all we had seen was the same three weeks we are crowning Horn for.

I hope so too man.  You're right, I don't know on Horn and no one else does either.  But CB is one of those positions that typically struggle right away in the NFL.  Maybe he was just riding the overall play of the team, we'll see.

[SCO96]

13 hours ago, MHS831 said:

Would you trade Burns, Brown, and Horn for a franchise QB?

If I had players on the team capable of replacing them with no (or little) drop-off, and the rest of the roster was solid across the board, then I think I'd do it.  None of the guys you mentioned are irreplaceable.  However, if would have to be for an established guy (ex: Russell Wilson, Aaron Rodgers, Deshaun Watson...before assault allegations). I wouldn't trade those guys to draft a rookie ...unless...He was a generational QB...and even then I'd be hesitant.

Edited January 21, 2022 by SCO96

[OldhamA]

19 hours ago, SCO96 said:

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2022/01/18/2022-nfl-draft-order-eagles-hold-15th-16th-and-19th-overall-picks/

As you can see from the above link, Philly has 3 draft choices between picks 10 and 20. I don't think the Eagles are going to do anything drastic at QB this year. But, if you were the GM for the Panthers (or any team for that matter) and your franchise was a QB away from being a legitimate Super Bowl threat would you consider the making the following move(s)?

1) Trade all three #1 draft choices in one year to either move up in the draft to pick a stud QB?

2) Trade all three #1 draft choices in one year to acquire a stud QB in a blockbuster trade?

And,

If you were a GM for a team would you

1) Accept three #1 picks for a team to move up into your spot the draft?

2) Accept three #1 picks to trade a player you were looking to move? 

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San Francisco gave up a ton to get Trey Lance. The details are below. 

"The Niners essentially placed their future in Lance's hands, sending three first-round picks to Miami for the right to select the dynamic, dual-threat quarterback. San Francisco doesn't have a first-round pick until 2024 and is also out a third-rounder in 2022."

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I could see doing this if you were only a QB away from contending for a title. The player you picked or traded for would in essence be your #1 pick and the other draft choices in later rounds would be intact. I couldn't see parting with any picks the following draft.

I could see doing it as a GM if there was a strong draft class that season. You could pick 3 blue chip players and pretty much control them for 5 seasons. If the picks were solid, a team could significantly better in a hurry.

Thoughts?

 

 

I would never trade that much capital for an unproven rookie.

If you're asking me I'd give three first round picks for Mahomes, then yes (but then we should have drafted him the first time round).

Edited January 21, 2022 by OldhamA