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No more Watson threads. Use this one or one of the other 20 existing ones.


rayzor
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2 minutes ago, MVPccaffrey said:

i honestly think Saints are in it to goad Tepper into giving up even more picks and players as an easy way to harm our franchise further

I think the Taints are in it because they know if Carolina gets Watson they are going to get beat twice a year for a decade.

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1 minute ago, Louie said:

I think the Taints are in it because they know if Carolina gets Watson they are going to get beat twice a year for a decade.

He couldn't do that against the Jags and Colts or Titans, and the 'Aints wouldn't have three years of 1sts and they'd be moving key defensive players, but sure

Edited by MVPccaffrey
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1 minute ago, TheCasillas said:

you can argue that all you want, but the stats wont support your argument. Nico had twice the amount of production with 1/3 of the game time TMJ had. Conley is a vet now and who is becoming an established deep threat. TMJ means nothing to the Texans.

Football teams need more than one or two receivers. Also, I don’t think a rookie year playing behind DJ and Robby with Darnold as his QB really hurts his stock in the eyes of evaluators…at least, not as much as in the eyes of overreactive fans.

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1 minute ago, La Pantera said:

So a player who should've been droy, at a position we've had crap at for nearly 20 years, with draft picks we don't have.

We have to give up one of the guys at least if we are serious about getting him.

They arent going to trade away their best player for scrubs. 

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3 minutes ago, Smittymoose said:

No, I don't. It's a much longer-term move than Stafford or Brady. Watson is 26 years old. He's probably got 10 really good, elite or near-elite level years left. 

Are you really holding it against Watson that he didn't win a Super Bowl at age 23-24 with good rosters? It's not as if the Texans were bad those years. They were contenders. Aaron Rodgers has been the best QB in the NFL or close to it for 15 years and has one Super Bowl to show for it. Only one guy can win it every year. 

Correct, one QB with a competent staff and solid supporting cast around him.  Watson would have neither here.  You are seemingly willing to wait for the Panthers to build around Watson, so why not wait for us to draft a guy next year?  My only rationale is you feel that Watson has this well of untapped potential or either a die-hard Clemson fan.

I've stated my case against the Watson trade and my points are numerous.  Your point is the belief he will turn this organization around...seemingly almost by his presence alone.

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12 minutes ago, Smittymoose said:

No, I don't. It's a much longer-term move than Stafford or Brady. Watson is 26 years old. He's probably got 10 really good, elite or near-elite level years left. 

I agree but where is Watson under contract for 10 years?  Don't you think the Houston Texans thought they were going to have their QB for the next 10+ years when they drafted Watson?

That's the only thing for me.  What if things sour with our front office/management after 3-5 years?

Edited by PNW_PantherMan
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8 minutes ago, Smittymoose said:

I don't think Bridgewater was a product of impatience. That move made plenty of sense at the time. He just didn't work out. And I fail to see how one bad trade for Darnold is proof that urgency never pays off. Bucs weren't "patient" with Winston. They went out and got Brady. Chiefs weren't "patient" with Alex Smith. They went out and got a QB they thought could be an upgrade when they didn't necessarily need one. The Broncos weren't "patient" with The Golden Calf of Bristol. They went and got Manning and won a Super Bowl. 

Hold up.  Signing teddy made sense to you at the time?  Sweet christ kid log off for the night.  

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3 minutes ago, Julio said:

Football teams need more than one or two receivers. Also, I don’t think a rookie year playing behind DJ and Robby with Darnold as his QB really hurts his stock in the eyes of evaluators…at least, not as much as in the eyes of overreactive fans.

uhh who did the texans have at QB last year? lol....

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    • The referee assigned to this game is Shawn Smith. This is a critical data point for betting purposes because his crew has one of the most distinct, long-term statistical biases in the NFL. "Road Team" Bias: Historically, Shawn Smith is known as the "Road Team Referee." In a league where home teams usually win ~55% of the time, home teams in Smith's games have historically won at a rate far below league average (often hovering around 40-42%). Against The Spread (ATS): The trend is even starker here. Home teams have covered the spread at a rate of roughly 37-40% in his career. The Mechanism: Analysis shows his crew tends to call a higher rate of False Start and Unnecessary Roughness penalties on the Home Team. This negates the traditional home-field advantage (crowd noise causing false starts for the visitors). Impact on This Game: This specific assignment heavily favors the Buccaneers (Road Team). If you believe the referee influences the game, Smith's presence suggests the Panthers will struggle to get "home cooking" calls and may face untimely procedural flags that stall drives. The Panthers have only had Shawn Smith officiate four home games since he became a head referee in 2018, and they are all losses. Date Opponent Result Score Nov 24, 2024 vs. Kansas City Chiefs Loss 27–30 Oct 9, 2022 vs. San Francisco 49ers Loss 15–37 Dec 12, 2021 vs. Atlanta Falcons Loss 21–29 Nov 25, 2018 vs. Seattle Seahawks Loss 27–30 Considering the how rare it is for Shawn Smith to officiate a Panthers game at all, this seems like an odd time to assign him to a Panthers game, unless the NFL wants to kill the Panthers season once and for all.  The Panthers' offensive line situation creates a "perfect storm" for referee Shawn Smith's specific tendency to call False Starts on the home team. The "Carousel" Factor (Communication Vulnerability) The most damning stat for the Panthers' offensive line in 2025 is their lack of continuity. The Stat: By Week 13, the Panthers had already fielded their 10th different offensive line combination. The Impact: False starts are often "communication penalties"—they happen when a guard doesn't hear the center's snap count or a tackle anticipates the wrong cadence. A unit that hasn't played together struggles with non-verbal communication. The Shawn Smith Multiplier: Shawn Smith’s crew calls False Starts at a high rate on home teams. He will likely look for flinches on the exterior of the line. A disjointed line that is constantly rotating players (due to the injuries of starters like Cade Mays and the illness issues with Robert Hunt earlier this season) is "fresh meat" for this specific referee bias. The Specific Culprits (2025 Penalties) Ikem Ekwonu (LT): Leads the team with 4 False Start penalties this season. He is the most frequent violator on the line. Taylor Moton (RT): Has been flagged for 3 False Starts. The Trap: Smith’s crew often focuses on the tackles (the players furthest from the ball) jumping early to get an edge on speed rushers. Since Ekwonu struggles with this discipline naturally, having a referee who hunts for it is a massive disadvantage. The "Managed Outcome" Synthesis The "Bucs Cover" Script: If the desired outcome is a Buccaneers win to solidify their playoff standing, the officials simply have to apply the letter of the law. Calling strict False Starts on a confused, banged-up Panthers O-line will consistently put them in "3rd and Long" situations, killing their drives and allowing the Bucs (-3.5) to cover easily. The "Close Game" Script: If the desired outcome is "Week 18 Drama" (keeping the division tied), look for the officials to ignore the Panthers' twitchy tackles. If Ekwonu jumps a split-second early and no flag is thrown, it effectively neutralizes the Bucs' pass rush, allowing the Panthers to keep the score close. Summary of the Edge Vulnerability: Extreme. The Panthers are playing backup interior linemen (like Jake Curhan or practice squad call-ups) next to jumpy tackles. Betting Implication: This strongly reinforces the Bucs -3 or -3.5 play. The combination of a "Road Team Referee" and a "Home Team O-Line in chaos" suggests the Panthers will beat themselves with procedural penalties. Based on the collision of the hard data (Referee bias + Offensive Line injuries) and the soft narratives ("Managed Outcomes"), here is the definitive recommendation. If you have to place a single Moneyline bet to win this game straight up: The Pick: Tampa Bay Buccaneers (-165) While the "Entertainment Script" hints at a Panthers upset to keep the division messy, the structural disadvantage the Panthers face in this specific matchup is too massive to ignore. Here is why the Buccaneers are the stong moneyline play: 1. The "Shawn Smith" Road-Field Advantage This is the decisive factor. In the NFL, Home Field Advantage usually accounts for about 1.5 to 2 points of value. The Reality: Referee Shawn Smith negates that advantage entirely. His crew calls penalties in a way that historically suppresses home crowd momentum (False Starts, holding). The Result: You are essentially getting the Buccaneers on a neutral field (or even a "pseudo-home" field) against a team with a worse roster. 2. The "Drive-Killer" Synergy To win as an underdog, the Panthers need to play a clean, mistake-free game to keep drives alive. The combination of Panthers' 10th O-Line combo + Jump-prone Tackles (Ekwonu) + A Referee who hunts False Starts is a recipe for disaster. The Scenario: Expect the Panthers to face multiple "1st and 15" or "3rd and 12" situations due to procedural flags. These drive-killers will force them to punt or settle for field goals, while the Bucs' offense (led by Mayfield) stays on schedule. 3. The "TV Product" Counter-Argument You asked about the "Managed Outcome." While a Panthers win creates "chaos," the NFL also values Star Power in the playoffs. Baker Mayfield and the Buccaneers are a proven national TV draw with recent playoff history. If the league has to choose between "Chaos" (Panthers) and "Ratings/Legitimacy" (Bucs), the "Script" likely leans toward ensuring the Buccaneers—the more marketable team—secure the division lead. They won't "fix" the game against the Panthers, but they won't intervene to save them from their own penalties. Final Verdict Betting on the Panthers requires you to hope for a miracle 4th-quarter collapse. Betting on the Buccaneers requires you to trust that a superior roster—aided by a favorable officiating crew—will control the game for the first 45 minutes. Take the Buccaneers Moneyline. The "Safe" money is on the Ref. The Prediction: Tampa Bay Buccaneers Win and Cover Projected Score: Buccaneers 27, Panthers 17 The Bet: Buccaneers -3 (or Moneyline -165) Confidence Level: High on the Winner; Moderate on the Spread (due to potential "garbage time" variance).
    • He isn't a good HC. I think he has proved that conclusively.
    • The missed tackle percentage is on that screen cap.
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