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No more Watson threads. Use this one or one of the other 20 existing ones.


rayzor
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11 minutes ago, Coheed said:

Well, I was three years old when that happened and had no concept of competitive sports or object permanence for that matter, good try tho.

Hey I'm just trying to get a feel for where the boundaries are for making a scene on the way out the door so I know when to get my feather boa and loin cloth for my own exit performance whenever I get a wild hair.

Just to clarify though - as long as the reprehensible behavior happened before you were a fan of the team / old enough to care it's cool.  All I needed - thanks.

Edit because I forgot a question!!

Since the Panthers are doing everything they can do to acquire the player should the clear intent to bring him here not damn them in your eyes anyway?  If I were you I'd make my exit now - that indignation shouldn't hinge on what *Watson* does...but on the team.  They very clearly intend to sign him.

Edited by mwright350
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29 minutes ago, MHS831 said:

I agree.  So we pay $35m for a QB who is out for over 1/3 of our games.  2022 done, imo. We lose a star RB, DE, and maybe a WR like Moore.  We lose our first in 2022, 2023, and 2024.  And we can only be good when this investment is 28--which means we have a top QB for about 5-7 years.

So if 2022 is a lost cause because we only get Watson for about 60% of the games if he is healthy, why not trade the players you intend to include in the deal for first rounders, basically guaranteeing the chance to draft a top rookie QB in 2023, when the shopping is good? 

Not suggesting this, but I am saying there are many ways to become relevant.  If we dont get Watson, I am OK with it.  If we do, great.

Let's say we give up the farm (players and captial) for Watson.  He gets suspended and we suck.  Rhule gets fired. We have no relationship in reality with him.  No history.  We are seeing more and more of this trend of QBs not caring about contracts or anything like that.  Just demand to be traded or make life miserable.    Would it be crazy that after a bad 2022 and a staff he might not love that Watson simply becomes a problem?  Demands to be traded?  He literally did that in Hou after he signed that big deal with them. 

Watson is a big risk.  For so many different reasons.  And if you sign him, you have to pull for whatever the 22 civil cases eventually reveal.   That's your team at that point. 

*and Watson was my favorite football player.   Was my all time favorite (college and pro).  So I don't want to hear that I am a hater.  I'm a huge Clemson fan.   This is a huge  gamble and the fanbase is so tired of losing I think they are overlooking how big of a risk Watson is given the high cost. 

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21 minutes ago, MHS831 said:

I agree.  So we pay $35m for a QB who is out for over 1/3 of our games.  2022 done, imo. We lose a star RB, DE, and maybe a WR like Moore.  We lose our first in 2022, 2023, and 2024.  And we can only be good when this investment is 28--which means we have a top QB for about 5-7 years.

So if 2022 is a lost cause because we only get Watson for about 60% of the games if he is healthy, why not trade the players you intend to include in the deal for first rounders, basically guaranteeing the chance to draft a top rookie QB in 2023, when the shopping is good? 

Not suggesting this, but I am saying there are many ways to become relevant.  If we dont get Watson, I am OK with it.  If we do, great.

Think of this as an investment. 

Best case - he makes us competitive and gets us in the playoff conversation for the next 5 years.

or - we are not able to build anything of note in 3-4 years and decide to tear it all down again and start fresh.  Dude will probably still be worth 3 first round picks at age 32.

I think people see the 3 first rounders going out and forget we now have an asset that could probably be flipped for 3 first rounders in the future.  We're not permanently losing the draft capital - just moving it into another asset (although realistically, that asset could get hurt and be worth much less at some point).

Tepper is a hedge fund guy.  This is probably how he is looking at this.

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Just now, Tbe said:


Watson screwed them over. They won’t let him screw them a 2nd time.

They really don't have much of a choice.  He has almost all of the leverage.  Sure, they could just threaten to sit him another year, but he's hamstringing them still because that's just a ton of deadcap getting eaten up for a player that isn't even active.  If we woo him and he says this is where he wants to go, they will have to acquiesce.

I'm also hoping the same kind of magic that Pat Stewart pulled off with his former peers in NE with thr Gilmore trade will kick in with Caserio here, and we'll be able to get a little bit of a discount compared to what's been reported.

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6 minutes ago, Proudiddy said:

They really don't have much of a choice.  He has almost all of the leverage.  Sure, they could just threaten to sit him another year, but he's hamstringing them still because that's just a ton of deadcap getting eaten up for a player that isn't even active.  If we woo him and he says this is where he wants to go, they will have to acquiesce.

I'm also hoping the same kind of magic that Pat Stewart pulled off with his former peers in NE with thr Gilmore trade will kick in with Caserio here, and we'll be able to get a little bit of a discount compared to what's been reported.

Pretty sure if he refuses to play they can suspend him for conduct detrimental and he won't count towards their cap.

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1 minute ago, t96 said:

Pretty sure if he refuses to play they can suspend him for conduct detrimental and he won't count towards their cap.

Slippery slope, because he can say he isn't refusing to play, but then play half-assed.  Or that he never refused to play and they suspended him anyway, where then the NFLPA would get involved.  

I just don't think that either scenario is in the Texans best interest.

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30 minutes ago, CRA said:

Let's say we give up the farm (players and captial) for Watson.  He gets suspended and we suck.  Rhule gets fired. We have no relationship in reality with him.  No history.  We are seeing more and more of this trend of QBs not caring about contracts or anything like that.  Just demand to be traded or make life miserable.    Would it be crazy that after a bad 2022 and a staff he might not love that Watson simply becomes a problem?  Demands to be traded?  He literally did that in Hou after he signed that big deal with them. 

Watson is a big risk.  For so many different reasons.  And if you sign him, you have to pull for whatever the 22 civil cases eventually reveal.   That's your team at that point. 

*and Watson was my favorite football player.   Was my all time favorite (college and pro).  So I don't want to hear that I am a hater.  I'm a huge Clemson fan.   This is a huge  gamble and the fanbase is so tired of losing I think they are overlooking how big of a risk Watson is given the high cost. 

Lets say we give up the farm for Watson. He plays very well in a "fug you" mode and the Panthers go 11-6 in their first year. Will you be back to posting positive messages and pretend you were never negative about Tepper? Yes

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59 minutes ago, Shocker said:

Think it’s weird no Saint fans have shown up here.  @Iron Saint?  

I been 👀
 

No idea how this is all gonna end up. Although the “Saints could never make this work cap wise” and “idk why he’d choose the Saints over us” comments are fantastic lol. Panthers have won 15 games in the last 49. Saints won 9 games last year with 4 different starting QBs. 
 

How I think this all will work, and this is just my guess because I’m not going to pretend like I have any idea what goes on in those buildings. I think the Texans have fielded offers. I’m sure they have a list of offers they would accept/begin negotiations from. I think Watson and his team were probably notified of said offers, and he’s able to get together the list of teams he’d be willing to meet with out of that group. 
 

I don’t see Watson meeting with teams who have offers on the table the Texans wouldn’t accept and I also don’t see him wasting time if it’s not a destination he’d want to end up in. I think it will all come down to who sells him the best. Where he feels like he has the best chance to win/make money. I think he makes the decision and says I’ll waive my NTC for “team x” because him telling the Texans he’ll waive it for a group of teams only starts a bidding war that depletes his next team. That doesn’t help him. 

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    • The referee assigned to this game is Shawn Smith. This is a critical data point for betting purposes because his crew has one of the most distinct, long-term statistical biases in the NFL. "Road Team" Bias: Historically, Shawn Smith is known as the "Road Team Referee." In a league where home teams usually win ~55% of the time, home teams in Smith's games have historically won at a rate far below league average (often hovering around 40-42%). Against The Spread (ATS): The trend is even starker here. Home teams have covered the spread at a rate of roughly 37-40% in his career. The Mechanism: Analysis shows his crew tends to call a higher rate of False Start and Unnecessary Roughness penalties on the Home Team. This negates the traditional home-field advantage (crowd noise causing false starts for the visitors). Impact on This Game: This specific assignment heavily favors the Buccaneers (Road Team). If you believe the referee influences the game, Smith's presence suggests the Panthers will struggle to get "home cooking" calls and may face untimely procedural flags that stall drives. The Panthers have only had Shawn Smith officiate four home games since he became a head referee in 2018, and they are all losses. Date Opponent Result Score Nov 24, 2024 vs. Kansas City Chiefs Loss 27–30 Oct 9, 2022 vs. San Francisco 49ers Loss 15–37 Dec 12, 2021 vs. Atlanta Falcons Loss 21–29 Nov 25, 2018 vs. Seattle Seahawks Loss 27–30 Considering the how rare it is for Shawn Smith to officiate a Panthers game at all, this seems like an odd time to assign him to a Panthers game, unless the NFL wants to kill the Panthers season once and for all.  The Panthers' offensive line situation creates a "perfect storm" for referee Shawn Smith's specific tendency to call False Starts on the home team. The "Carousel" Factor (Communication Vulnerability) The most damning stat for the Panthers' offensive line in 2025 is their lack of continuity. The Stat: By Week 13, the Panthers had already fielded their 10th different offensive line combination. The Impact: False starts are often "communication penalties"—they happen when a guard doesn't hear the center's snap count or a tackle anticipates the wrong cadence. A unit that hasn't played together struggles with non-verbal communication. The Shawn Smith Multiplier: Shawn Smith’s crew calls False Starts at a high rate on home teams. He will likely look for flinches on the exterior of the line. A disjointed line that is constantly rotating players (due to the injuries of starters like Cade Mays and the illness issues with Robert Hunt earlier this season) is "fresh meat" for this specific referee bias. The Specific Culprits (2025 Penalties) Ikem Ekwonu (LT): Leads the team with 4 False Start penalties this season. He is the most frequent violator on the line. Taylor Moton (RT): Has been flagged for 3 False Starts. The Trap: Smith’s crew often focuses on the tackles (the players furthest from the ball) jumping early to get an edge on speed rushers. Since Ekwonu struggles with this discipline naturally, having a referee who hunts for it is a massive disadvantage. The "Managed Outcome" Synthesis The "Bucs Cover" Script: If the desired outcome is a Buccaneers win to solidify their playoff standing, the officials simply have to apply the letter of the law. Calling strict False Starts on a confused, banged-up Panthers O-line will consistently put them in "3rd and Long" situations, killing their drives and allowing the Bucs (-3.5) to cover easily. The "Close Game" Script: If the desired outcome is "Week 18 Drama" (keeping the division tied), look for the officials to ignore the Panthers' twitchy tackles. If Ekwonu jumps a split-second early and no flag is thrown, it effectively neutralizes the Bucs' pass rush, allowing the Panthers to keep the score close. Summary of the Edge Vulnerability: Extreme. The Panthers are playing backup interior linemen (like Jake Curhan or practice squad call-ups) next to jumpy tackles. Betting Implication: This strongly reinforces the Bucs -3 or -3.5 play. The combination of a "Road Team Referee" and a "Home Team O-Line in chaos" suggests the Panthers will beat themselves with procedural penalties. Based on the collision of the hard data (Referee bias + Offensive Line injuries) and the soft narratives ("Managed Outcomes"), here is the definitive recommendation. If you have to place a single Moneyline bet to win this game straight up: The Pick: Tampa Bay Buccaneers (-165) While the "Entertainment Script" hints at a Panthers upset to keep the division messy, the structural disadvantage the Panthers face in this specific matchup is too massive to ignore. Here is why the Buccaneers are the stong moneyline play: 1. The "Shawn Smith" Road-Field Advantage This is the decisive factor. In the NFL, Home Field Advantage usually accounts for about 1.5 to 2 points of value. The Reality: Referee Shawn Smith negates that advantage entirely. His crew calls penalties in a way that historically suppresses home crowd momentum (False Starts, holding). The Result: You are essentially getting the Buccaneers on a neutral field (or even a "pseudo-home" field) against a team with a worse roster. 2. The "Drive-Killer" Synergy To win as an underdog, the Panthers need to play a clean, mistake-free game to keep drives alive. The combination of Panthers' 10th O-Line combo + Jump-prone Tackles (Ekwonu) + A Referee who hunts False Starts is a recipe for disaster. The Scenario: Expect the Panthers to face multiple "1st and 15" or "3rd and 12" situations due to procedural flags. These drive-killers will force them to punt or settle for field goals, while the Bucs' offense (led by Mayfield) stays on schedule. 3. The "TV Product" Counter-Argument You asked about the "Managed Outcome." While a Panthers win creates "chaos," the NFL also values Star Power in the playoffs. Baker Mayfield and the Buccaneers are a proven national TV draw with recent playoff history. If the league has to choose between "Chaos" (Panthers) and "Ratings/Legitimacy" (Bucs), the "Script" likely leans toward ensuring the Buccaneers—the more marketable team—secure the division lead. They won't "fix" the game against the Panthers, but they won't intervene to save them from their own penalties. Final Verdict Betting on the Panthers requires you to hope for a miracle 4th-quarter collapse. Betting on the Buccaneers requires you to trust that a superior roster—aided by a favorable officiating crew—will control the game for the first 45 minutes. Take the Buccaneers Moneyline. The "Safe" money is on the Ref. The Prediction: Tampa Bay Buccaneers Win and Cover Projected Score: Buccaneers 27, Panthers 17 The Bet: Buccaneers -3 (or Moneyline -165) Confidence Level: High on the Winner; Moderate on the Spread (due to potential "garbage time" variance).
    • He isn't a good HC. I think he has proved that conclusively.
    • The missed tackle percentage is on that screen cap.
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