Is there still a case for Wilks?

[Smithers]

Wilks was critical of Snow, took over the team then fired Snow, then turned Snow’s top 10 defense into a bottom 10 unit.  Wilks simply isn’t HC material, and he prob isn’t DC coordinator material.  He is who he was for us back in Rivera’s day, and who he was for the Cardinals - a huge liability. 

[Sgt Schultz]

9 minutes ago, Mage said:

I'm not arguing against Wilks' ability to coach an average team.  What evidence is there to suggest Wilks can take a team over the top?  What about his ability to adjust to the opponent?  Make decisions on the fly?  What connections does Steve Wilks have that would lead us to believe he can bring in a highly touted OC or DC?  He was with Ron Rivera most of his pro coaching career, then spent one year in Arizona (got fired) and one year in Cleveland (got fired).  

And in a league where teams are going younger at HC, it seems weird for me to retain a retread 53-year old head coach with no notable defenses to speak of.  His coaching career is basically as Ron Rivera's right-hand man (seriously, only two of his pro years (the aforementioned Browns and Cardinals stints) were without Ron Rivera), except not nearly as good if we're comparing the defenses each has coached.  It baffles my mind how the same fanbase that universally agreed it was time for Rivera to go (even people in this own thread), now wants to hire his right hand man.  

But if the standard is a .500 record, then by all means.  But I can guarantee you it will go no different than Rivera's run here... except Wilks is less likely to find his Cam Newton and will actually need to develop a QB rather than depend on his rare athleticism.  And we all saw what happened every single time in games when Newton couldn't will the offense to the endzone.

There is no evidence to support that he can achieve anything more than perhaps a shade above what he did this year, with a roster of his choice and coaches of his choice.  At least, that we know of.  We have no idea what discussions about moving forward have taken place behind closed doors. 

But, your general assessment is why I am not on the Wilks bandwagon.  Remember, the original question was whether there is a case for Wilks, and what he did this year is it.

There is also no evidence that one of the up-and-coming coordinators can coach a team over the top.  Case and point has been the last decade plus of McDaniels.  He's now had two bites at the HC apple, and calling him a failure in that role is doing a disservice to failures.  If he hangs on to the Raiders job after the season ends, it will be for financial reasons, not merit.

As for former HC's where there is evidence they can move a team over the top, check out the history of coaches who have won the big show in their second and later stops.  It is less than impressive.

For the record, I thought it was time for Rivera to go.  He ran his course here and then some.  If we hire Wilks, short of some brilliance in his selection of assistants and him being less conservative when he has a roster he assembled (which I will admit is possible), I think we are topping out in about three or four years, if not sooner.  I don't hold Arizona against him (clusterf*#k of an organization) and I don't think he would necessarily be a failure.  Even if he was, his failure would look like a minor success compared to the last two-plus years. I just think his ceiling is somewhere below the height of "consistent playoff team" or "Owl winner."

So, there is a case for him.  Any organization that is a mess and needs stability will do themselves a favor in interviewing Wilks or Rivera, should he get the ax.  They can provide that.  And for some fiascos, the next step is stability. 

I don't know if we are beyond that or we are in a reconstruction phase, in all honesty. 

 

[Brooklyn 3.0]

[Sgt Schultz]

15 minutes ago, Smithers said:

Wilks was critical of Snow, took over the team then fired Snow, then turned Snow’s top 10 defense into a bottom 10 unit.  Wilks simply isn’t HC material, and he prob isn’t DC coordinator material.  He is who he was for us back in Rivera’s day, and who he was for the Cardinals - a huge liability. 

In fairness, Snow was running an undersized defense using schemes for an undersized defense.  That was not going to win games against the likes of Pittsburgh, Baltimore, or anybody else that is going to push their opponents around.  We just aren't built for that, and that is a weakness

The best comparison I can think of is the late 80's Denver Broncos, in Elway's initial years.  Their defense was built on speed and was also undersized.  They could give half the league grief, but the other half (most of which happened to be in the NFC at the time) just annihilated them.  And they were more talented at that philosophy than we are.  They were also able to put up a lot of points on offense, until they weren't.

I think a good chunk of our defense needs to be re-evaluated.  Because if we ever do get to the playoffs, getting pushed around at the LOS is a ticket to a quick exit.

As for yesterday, the book on how to get into Brady's head is written, we just could not do it.  Which exposed a non-existent secondary.

[Sgt Schultz]

By the way, the other case for Wilks is that Tepper is so gun shy after his first swing for the fences (where he fell down, came out of his shoes, and lost the grip on the bat sending it sailing past third base) that he goes the extremely safe route.

I've seen others concerned about that same possibility.

[carpanfan96]

7 minutes ago, Sgt Schultz said:

By the way, the other case for Wilks is that Tepper is so gun shy after his first swing for the fences (where he fell down, came out of his shoes, and lost the grip on the bat sending it sailing past third base) that he goes the extremely safe route.

I've seen others concerned about that same possibility.

That combined with the fact that Wilks did as well as he's done with a fairly bad team, none of his coaches really or his system in place. I'd not be shocked if Wilks gets the job.  

[trueblade]

I know it got lost in the Lions win, but this is the second week in a row a single opposing offensive player has scored three TDs. Obviously Evans this week, but Lion's TE Shane Zylstra scored three TDs last week. To me, it points to a lack of adjustments from Wilks and his defensive staff multiple weeks in a row.

[Jon Snow]

1 minute ago, trueblade said:

I know it got lost in the Lions win, but this is the second week in a row a single opposing offensive player has scored three TDs. Obviously Evans this week, but Lion's TE Shane Zylstra scored three TDs last week. To me, it points to a lack of adjustments from Wilks and his defensive staff multiple weeks in a row.

It hasn't gotten lost with me.  This defense has a lot of weakness.  Horn is our only good CB and good offensive coordinators know that. We give up a ton of receiving yards on defense. 

[OldhamA]

4 hours ago, Jon Snow said:

This is Rhule's team. He hired the staff and assembled the players. All Wilks was able to show was just how good these players and staff could really be. It appears to be about the 7th to 10th worst team in the league.  That is the reality of the situation regardless of who the coaching staff will be.

Which has always been my point about Rhule (and by extension Fitterer) - he's a very good talent evaluator (or perhaps acquirer as he didn't play Marshall, played Chinn out of position, didn't play Boseman etc etc), but a poor Head Coach.

Wilks has just mostly put people where they should be and asked the team to play sound, fundamental football. That, unfortunately, doesn't get you over the hump in the NFL without a sensational QB, which we obviously don't have. 

If I'm in charge I thank Wilks for his time, which has been great for his CV, and wish him well. You'll get lambasted by the media, but the media just want us to be quietly competent without being a threat to their darlings. 

[OldhamA]

1 hour ago, Sgt Schultz said:

In fairness, Snow was running an undersized defense using schemes for an undersized defense.  That was not going to win games against the likes of Pittsburgh, Baltimore, or anybody else that is going to push their opponents around.  We just aren't built for that, and that is a weakness

The best comparison I can think of is the late 80's Denver Broncos, in Elway's initial years.  Their defense was built on speed and was also undersized.  They could give half the league grief, but the other half (most of which happened to be in the NFC at the time) just annihilated them.  And they were more talented at that philosophy than we are.  They were also able to put up a lot of points on offense, until they weren't.

I think a good chunk of our defense needs to be re-evaluated.  Because if we ever do get to the playoffs, getting pushed around at the LOS is a ticket to a quick exit.

As for yesterday, the book on how to get into Brady's head is written, we just could not do it.  Which exposed a non-existent secondary.

You don't need to go back that far - the Colts under Manning had an undersized defence... but they were always playing with the league and just needed as top or two (i.e. disrupting a drive with a big sack) to beat you. 

[Brooklyn 3.0]

I just want to see a special one-off contest between Ron Rivera and Wilks. Like the Nathan's Hot Dog contest ... but in this case ... who can look the most stoic on the sideline. First person to show emotion loses.

[frankw]

1 hour ago, Sgt Schultz said:

By the way, the other case for Wilks is that Tepper is so gun shy after his first swing for the fences (where he fell down, came out of his shoes, and lost the grip on the bat sending it sailing past third base) that he goes the extremely safe route.

I've seen others concerned about that same possibility.

Yeah definitely possible let's hope not.

[WOW!!]

Yes!! Competent coaching is always a plus..

[poundaway]

16 hours ago, LinvilleGorge said:

I don't think so. He's a defensive guy and the defense actually got worse.

This.