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Panthers signing Yannick Ngakoue?

TheSpecialJuan
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KatsAzz Grand Master

KatsAzz

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, MHS831 said:

Fair enough, but is that really a need with Barno and Haynes?  Haynes had 5 sacks (and 20 solo tackles) on 41% of the defensive snap counts.  Burns had 12.5 sacks while playing 87% of the snap counts.  Mathematically, if Haynes played 87% of the snap counts he would have had 10.5 sacks.  Barno had 2 sacks while playing in just 9% of the defensive snaps.  Mathematically, he would have had over 18 sacks if given 87% of the snaps.  

While I realize this is math and not performance, it does suggest performance when given opportunity. 

Evero made a revealing comment when talking to Johnson.  "Ready to rush the passer?  You realize you gotta hold the edge first, right?"  At Strong OLB, we have YGM, the raw and unproven Johnson, and the raw, unproven, and undrafted Leota.  The strong OLB basically holds the edge with 2 gap run responsibility to the passer. The weak side OLB is the pure, "pin your ears back" pass rusher because he does not have edge responsibility like the strong.   In a spread offense you could have 2 weak OLB rushing the passer--but with the strong set, you have to hold the edge because there is a TE.  Personally, I think we are decent to potentially good at WOLB, totally unproven at SOLB.

So the need is not for a situational pass rusher (although we can upgrade there as we can any position), the need is for strong OLB--those that hold the edge.  That is how I understand it. 

Thanks. That was a very good detailed and informative summary about the duties the edge rusher / LB positions.

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mav1234 Grand Master

mav1234

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1 hour ago, MHS831 said:

Fair enough, but is that really a need with Barno and Haynes?  Haynes had 5 sacks (and 20 solo tackles) on 41% of the defensive snap counts.  Burns had 12.5 sacks while playing 87% of the snap counts.  Mathematically, if Haynes played 87% of the snap counts he would have had 10.5 sacks.  Barno had 2 sacks while playing in just 9% of the defensive snaps.  Mathematically, he would have had over 18 sacks if given 87% of the snaps.  

While I realize this is math and not performance, it does suggest performance when given opportunity. 

Evero made a revealing comment when talking to Johnson.  "Ready to rush the passer?  You realize you gotta hold the edge first, right?"  At Strong OLB, we have YGM, the raw and unproven Johnson, and the raw, unproven, and undrafted Leota.  The strong OLB basically holds the edge with 2 gap run responsibility to the passer. The weak side OLB is the pure, "pin your ears back" pass rusher because he does not have edge responsibility like the strong.   In a spread offense you could have 2 weak OLB rushing the passer--but with the strong set, you have to hold the edge because there is a TE.  Personally, I think we are decent to potentially good at WOLB, totally unproven at SOLB.

So the need is not for a situational pass rusher (although we can upgrade there as we can any position), the need is for strong OLB--those that hold the edge.  That is how I understand it. 

Great post, helps clarify our current situation on defense I think.  Not huge fan of trying to extrapolate such limited numbers of sacks to increased usage in that linear way, but great points all-around and on what we really need.

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Mr. Scot Grand Master

Mr. Scot

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21 minutes ago, TheCasillas said:

Why though? He has only played one fulll season his entire career (9 seasons)

Honestly, I think Clowney has always been more name than real player.

Everybody remembers that one big college highlight, but if you want to name a pro highlight of his, it's not so easy.

The knock that he made a load of money off of one clip has some validity to it.

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Ricky Spanish Grand Master

Ricky Spanish

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5 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Honestly, I think Clowney has always been more name than real player.

Everybody remembers that one big college highlight, but if you want to name a pro highlight of his, it's not so easy.

The knock that he made a load of money off of one clip has some validity to it.

Clowney is an "A" Run defender and a "C" pass rusher.

He's like Reggie Bush. He wasn't worth the high pick, but he has had a solid career and isn't a bust. He'd be a plus add to our line and would probably get more sacks than rookie DJ Johnson. 

I wouldn't be against adding Floyd, Clowney, or Ngakoue, but between the three Clowney is probably the most well balanced. 

Wouldn't pay nearly what he thinks he's probably worth though. 

 

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frankw Grand Master

frankw

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I remember people complaining about Reddick's run defense too. Now they wish we had kept him.

We need situational pass rush help still if possible. Evero will have different packages. There will inevitably be an adjustment period either way with the switch to 3-4 we should be prepared for that anyway.

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mcsmoak Collaborator

mcsmoak

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35 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Honestly, I think Clowney has always been more name than real player.

Everybody remembers that one big college highlight, but if you want to name a pro highlight of his, it's not so easy.

The knock that he made a load of money off of one clip has some validity to it.

Clowney finished 4-5 in the Heisman voting that year…. Before the famous hit.  Obv that hit got a lot of praise, but he was an elite DE in college.

Unfortunately for clowney, he had to have micro fracture knee surgery when he got to the NFL, which ends lots of careers 

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CPF4LIFE Grand Master

CPF4LIFE

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12 hours ago, jfra78 said:

Can you believe this guy was supposed to be the next Peppers

Dude was a number 1 overall pick. Just goes to show just because majority agree on a players as a consensus doesn't mean they are right or that guy is guaranteed to be good. 

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Mr. Scot Grand Master

Mr. Scot

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56 minutes ago, Ricky Spanish said:

Clowney is an "A" Run defender and a "C" pass rusher.

He's like Reggie Bush. He wasn't worth the high pick, but he has had a solid career and isn't a bust. He'd be a plus add to our line and would probably get more sacks than rookie DJ Johnson. 

I wouldn't be against adding Floyd, Clowney, or Ngakoue, but between the three Clowney is probably the most well balanced. 

Wouldn't pay nearly what he thinks he's probably worth though. 

Like was mentioned above though, how many games do you expect to get out of Clowney If you sign him?

29 minutes ago, mcsmoak said:

Clowney finished 4-5 in the Heisman voting that year…. Before the famous hit.  Obv that hit got a lot of praise, but he was an elite DE in college.

Unfortunately for clowney, he had to have micro fracture knee surgery when he got to the NFL, which ends lots of careers 

And therein lies the issue

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Swaggasaurus Experienced

Swaggasaurus

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5 hours ago, frankw said:

I remember people complaining about Reddick's run defense too. Now they wish we had kept him.

We need situational pass rush help still if possible. Evero will have different packages. There will inevitably be an adjustment period either way with the switch to 3-4 we should be prepared for that anyway.

I don’t wish we had kept him. You can’t bookend a defensive front 7 with Burns and Reddick. Didn’t work, won’t work, can’t work. He was going to get starter money…you only have so much money.

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TheSpecialJuan Grand Master

TheSpecialJuan

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EDGE JADEVEON CLOWNEY

The Panthers added Oregon edge defender DJ Johnson in the third round of the draft and have a few other young pieces on the roster, but if they want this loaded defense to truly be among the league’s best, they can’t have a potential weak link on the defensive line opposite Brian Burns.

Clowney is coming off a down year in the pass-rushing department, totaling only 29 pressures and two sacks, but a change of scenery could allow him to thrive again, similar to his first year in Cleveland. Clowney is one of the best run-defending edges in the NFL over the past decade and should benefit from a lot of talent around him.

New Panthers defensive coordinator Ejiro Evero has historically deployed a 3-4 base defense, and that is the expectation going forward, but the defense will be multiple in 2023 and Clowney has experience in both fronts. He would also be returning to the area he grew up in and where he played college football at South Carolina.

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-top-landing-spots-best-remaining-free-agents-2023-nfl-draft

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