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Vikings tried to trade up for Bryce Young?

NAS

By NAS,
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Aussie Tank Grand Master

Aussie Tank

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8 minutes ago, Varking said:

Well the first two shouldn’t be considered silly. His arm is average for an NFL QB. As is his athleticism. His processing, however, is said to be elite. 

Nearly all the past Goats of the position didn’t have cannons or great athleticism but they were elite between the ears an their work ethic. And all the QB needy teams know this and they saw it in Bryce 

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NAS Grand Master

NAS

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6 minutes ago, Aussie Tank said:

Nearly all the past Goats of the position didn’t have cannons or great athleticism but they were elite between the ears an their work ethic. And all the QB needy teams know this and they saw it in Bryce 

You mean Jeff George is not in the Hall of Fame with his 99 arm strength rating.

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frankw Grand Master

frankw

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6 hours ago, MasterAwesome said:

What do you think the market rate is for a mediocre starting QB? This ain’t the 1960s. Derek Carr just signed a $150 million, $37.5 million/year contract. He’s at best in the same tier as Cousins, although statistically he has had a far less productive career. Jordan Love has done absolutely nothing so far in 3 seasons and got a $13.5 million contract. Thinking that a $10 million salary would scare people off from trading for a Cousins-level QB is just silly…there’s no need to get defensive. I’d be more put off by whatever assets they were probably asking for in the trade, rather than paying his relatively measly $10 million salary.

We agree QB salaries are excessive and also agree he is ultimately mediocre along with Carr. But just like Carr who was coming off one of his worst seasons with arguably the best WR in football and still got a 150 million dollar deal with his new team the same will be waiting for Kirk if he ends up in a new city. That 10 million is just a placeholder for another fat contract we both know it. That's just the nature of the position now that there are so few good starting quarterbacks. I'm just glad we finally did what needed to be done to draft and develop our own.

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Varking Grand Master

Varking

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24 minutes ago, Aussie Tank said:

Nearly all the past Goats of the position didn’t have cannons or great athleticism but they were elite between the ears a their work ethic. And all the QB needy teams know this and they saw it in Bryce 

Yeah I’m not disputing anything of what you’re saying about other QBs. They don’t NEED cannons. However, just because an elite arm isn’t required to be a goat tier QB it doesn’t cancel out the fact that Bryce has middling arm strength. Both things can be true. 

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NAS Grand Master

NAS

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20 minutes ago, Varking said:

Yeah I’m not disputing anything of what you’re saying about other QBs. They don’t NEED cannons. However, just because an elite arm isn’t required to be a goat tier QB it doesn’t cancel out the fact that Bryce has middling arm strength. Both things can be true. 

Can he make every NFL throw with his arm strength?  yes

Does he make up for lack of top tier arm strength with top tier anticipation?  Yes

I love Cam but one of his biggest weaknesses was lack of anticipation and he would often have to rely on his arm strength to get the ball to the receiver on time.  We saw what happened when that arm strength went away due to injuries and he couldn't play anymore.

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rebelrouser Experienced

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I think Bryce's athleticism is pretty good and as someone pointed out, although he doesn't have a cannon, he does have all the throws needed. He's not a Lamar Jackson/Jalen Hurts level runner, but I would rather have an accurate qb than either of those guys.  We just need him to run enough to find throwing lanes and extend plays not to get yardage.  

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joemac Grand Master

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2 hours ago, Varking said:

Yeah I’m not disputing anything of what you’re saying about other QBs. They don’t NEED cannons. However, just because an elite arm isn’t required to be a goat tier QB it doesn’t cancel out the fact that Bryce has middling arm strength. Both things can be true. 

Where does this narrative come from that he has "middling" arm strength?  Ive watched nearly every throw hes made in his college career over the past few month, and his arm strength is no worse than 99% of the other QBs out there.  There are multiple throws where he zips it 40+ yards on a rope to the exact right spot.  Yeah he doesnt have an arm like young Cam or Stafford, but hes also not Chad Pennington/Jimmy Clausen levels either.  From what I have seen there should be absolutely zero worry about how strong his arm is. 

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joemac Grand Master

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1 hour ago, rebelrouser said:

I think Bryce's athleticism is pretty good and as someone pointed out, although he doesn't have a cannon, he does have all the throws needed. He's not a Lamar Jackson/Jalen Hurts level runner, but I would rather have an accurate qb than either of those guys.  We just need him to run enough to find throwing lanes and extend plays not to get yardage.  

Ive always said my ideal QB would be mobile enough to avoid rushers and still get the ball down field, very accurate, throws with great anticipation, and is very intelligent/makes the right decisions in the heat of the game.  Great arm strength is good to have, but it can also get you in trouble as you make reckless decisions trying to fit balls in tight windows. Bryce does all of the above in spades, and his arm is absolutely good enough to shine in the NFL.

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bythenbrs Veteran

bythenbrs

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10 minutes ago, joemac said:

Where does this narrative come from that he has "middling" arm strength?  Ive watched nearly every throw hes made in his college career over the past few month, and his arm strength is no worse than 99% of the other QBs out there.  There are multiple throws where he zips it 40+ yards on a rope to the exact right spot.  Yeah he doesnt have an arm like young Cam or Stafford, but hes also not Chad Pennington/Jimmy Clausen levels either.  From what I have seen there should be absolutely zero worry about how strong his arm is. 

Murphy's law, also known as the second law of thermodynamics, reminds us that there is no such thing as 'zero worry'.  Cam's arm strength was also 'zero worry' until it wasn't.

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Varking Grand Master

Varking

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49 minutes ago, joemac said:

Where does this narrative come from that he has "middling" arm strength?  Ive watched nearly every throw hes made in his college career over the past few month, and his arm strength is no worse than 99% of the other QBs out there.  There are multiple throws where he zips it 40+ yards on a rope to the exact right spot.  Yeah he doesnt have an arm like young Cam or Stafford, but hes also not Chad Pennington/Jimmy Clausen levels either.  From what I have seen there should be absolutely zero worry about how strong his arm is. 

Oh this is an easy one. To showcase the point: I request you list the NFL Starting QBs that Bryce clearly has better arm strength then. 
 

Mahomes, Herbert, Rodgers/Wilson, Allen, Carr/Watson, Hurts, Love, Fields, Lance/Darnold, Richardson, Stroud, Jackson, Burrow, Lawrence, Murray, Watson all have clearly stronger arms that Bryce. That’s like half of the NFL teams right there I wouldn’t even put up for much debate. 
 

So if he’s not in the top half who does he have a stronger arm then? And I’m sure I missed guys from the list. Like is his arm for sure stronger than Dak or Cousins? That’s up for debate. 
 

How many starting QBs in the NFL have, clearly, weaker arms than Bryce? 
 

I think some folks are being caught up in defending our guy and not looking objectively at what is being critiqued. He can 100% be an elite QB in the NFL if he stays healthy. That doesn’t change the fact his arm strength is middling at best when it comes to comparison against his peers. 
 

The reason one would indeed worry about arm strength is all QBs are going to get dinged up throughout a season. When you have elite arm strength and you lose a little zip you still have great or good arm strength and you can work with that. If you start with “average” arm strength and lose some if you get dinged up it becomes bad. And lesser velocity gives defenders more time to react and jump routes. It also affects timing with the WRs. 
 

But again, I’d love to see a list of folks who are projected to be NFL starters that we can point to and say Bryce clearly had a stronger arm than them. 32 starters. He’s likely sitting somewhere between 20-32. 

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      For example your data starts with Brady winning. Before that dynasty it was more wide open with different teams winning different ways. I don’t think that what they accomplished would be considered any sort of norm for the league (although the Chiefs might be proving me wrong currently).  I get what you are saying though. Teams just have to be looking for ways to win outside of finding the next Brady or Mahomes, because that’s just not realistic. That’s like counting on winning the lottery as part of your retirement plans. I would focus more on the other teams that have won and how they accomplished it. Most of those were solid, balanced rosters. One could argue the Patriots had a nice defense helping out Brady keeping games close for him to do his clutch drives. Similar to the Chiefs playoff run. Their defense isn’t getting enough credit either because it was tough in the playoffs. 
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