Vikings tried to trade up for Bryce Young?

[Varking]

24 minutes ago, Aussie Tank said:

Nearly all the past Goats of the position didn’t have cannons or great athleticism but they were elite between the ears a their work ethic. And all the QB needy teams know this and they saw it in Bryce 

Yeah I’m not disputing anything of what you’re saying about other QBs. They don’t NEED cannons. However, just because an elite arm isn’t required to be a goat tier QB it doesn’t cancel out the fact that Bryce has middling arm strength. Both things can be true. 

[NAS]

20 minutes ago, Varking said:

Yeah I’m not disputing anything of what you’re saying about other QBs. They don’t NEED cannons. However, just because an elite arm isn’t required to be a goat tier QB it doesn’t cancel out the fact that Bryce has middling arm strength. Both things can be true. 

Can he make every NFL throw with his arm strength?  yes

Does he make up for lack of top tier arm strength with top tier anticipation?  Yes

I love Cam but one of his biggest weaknesses was lack of anticipation and he would often have to rely on his arm strength to get the ball to the receiver on time.  We saw what happened when that arm strength went away due to injuries and he couldn't play anymore.

Edited May 12, 2023 by NAS

[shaqattaq]

17 hours ago, kungfoodude said:

dangling Cousins

Is that an Appalachia euphemism?  

[rebelrouser]

I think Bryce's athleticism is pretty good and as someone pointed out, although he doesn't have a cannon, he does have all the throws needed. He's not a Lamar Jackson/Jalen Hurts level runner, but I would rather have an accurate qb than either of those guys.  We just need him to run enough to find throwing lanes and extend plays not to get yardage.  

[TLGPanthersFan]

Kirk’s terrible ending solidified my dislike of him. 
Guy has no killing instinct and seem to not want to win a Super Bowl. 

[NAS]

1 hour ago, shaqattaq said:

Is that an Appalachia euphemism?  

back woods of West Virginia lol

[kungfoodude]

1 hour ago, TLGPanthersFan said:

Kirk’s terrible ending solidified my dislike of him. 
Guy has no killing instinct and seem to not want to win a Super Bowl. 

Well he had a very rich history of choking for most of his career. 

[joemac]

2 hours ago, Varking said:

Yeah I’m not disputing anything of what you’re saying about other QBs. They don’t NEED cannons. However, just because an elite arm isn’t required to be a goat tier QB it doesn’t cancel out the fact that Bryce has middling arm strength. Both things can be true. 

Where does this narrative come from that he has "middling" arm strength?  Ive watched nearly every throw hes made in his college career over the past few month, and his arm strength is no worse than 99% of the other QBs out there.  There are multiple throws where he zips it 40+ yards on a rope to the exact right spot.  Yeah he doesnt have an arm like young Cam or Stafford, but hes also not Chad Pennington/Jimmy Clausen levels either.  From what I have seen there should be absolutely zero worry about how strong his arm is. 

[joemac]

1 hour ago, rebelrouser said:

I think Bryce's athleticism is pretty good and as someone pointed out, although he doesn't have a cannon, he does have all the throws needed. He's not a Lamar Jackson/Jalen Hurts level runner, but I would rather have an accurate qb than either of those guys.  We just need him to run enough to find throwing lanes and extend plays not to get yardage.  

Ive always said my ideal QB would be mobile enough to avoid rushers and still get the ball down field, very accurate, throws with great anticipation, and is very intelligent/makes the right decisions in the heat of the game.  Great arm strength is good to have, but it can also get you in trouble as you make reckless decisions trying to fit balls in tight windows. Bryce does all of the above in spades, and his arm is absolutely good enough to shine in the NFL.

[bythenbrs]

10 minutes ago, joemac said:

Where does this narrative come from that he has "middling" arm strength?  Ive watched nearly every throw hes made in his college career over the past few month, and his arm strength is no worse than 99% of the other QBs out there.  There are multiple throws where he zips it 40+ yards on a rope to the exact right spot.  Yeah he doesnt have an arm like young Cam or Stafford, but hes also not Chad Pennington/Jimmy Clausen levels either.  From what I have seen there should be absolutely zero worry about how strong his arm is. 

Murphy's law, also known as the second law of thermodynamics, reminds us that there is no such thing as 'zero worry'.  Cam's arm strength was also 'zero worry' until it wasn't.

[Varking]

49 minutes ago, joemac said:

Where does this narrative come from that he has "middling" arm strength?  Ive watched nearly every throw hes made in his college career over the past few month, and his arm strength is no worse than 99% of the other QBs out there.  There are multiple throws where he zips it 40+ yards on a rope to the exact right spot.  Yeah he doesnt have an arm like young Cam or Stafford, but hes also not Chad Pennington/Jimmy Clausen levels either.  From what I have seen there should be absolutely zero worry about how strong his arm is. 

Oh this is an easy one. To showcase the point: I request you list the NFL Starting QBs that Bryce clearly has better arm strength then. 
 

Mahomes, Herbert, Rodgers/Wilson, Allen, Carr/Watson, Hurts, Love, Fields, Lance/Darnold, Richardson, Stroud, Jackson, Burrow, Lawrence, Murray, Watson all have clearly stronger arms that Bryce. That’s like half of the NFL teams right there I wouldn’t even put up for much debate. 
 

So if he’s not in the top half who does he have a stronger arm then? And I’m sure I missed guys from the list. Like is his arm for sure stronger than Dak or Cousins? That’s up for debate. 
 

How many starting QBs in the NFL have, clearly, weaker arms than Bryce? 
 

I think some folks are being caught up in defending our guy and not looking objectively at what is being critiqued. He can 100% be an elite QB in the NFL if he stays healthy. That doesn’t change the fact his arm strength is middling at best when it comes to comparison against his peers. 
 

The reason one would indeed worry about arm strength is all QBs are going to get dinged up throughout a season. When you have elite arm strength and you lose a little zip you still have great or good arm strength and you can work with that. If you start with “average” arm strength and lose some if you get dinged up it becomes bad. And lesser velocity gives defenders more time to react and jump routes. It also affects timing with the WRs. 
 

But again, I’d love to see a list of folks who are projected to be NFL starters that we can point to and say Bryce clearly had a stronger arm than them. 32 starters. He’s likely sitting somewhere between 20-32. 

[frankw]

If our staff the front office and scouts think his arm strength is more than fine along with other teams that were looking at moving up for him I think it should be one of our lesser concerns as fans. He's only 21 and he will be hitting the weight room. Maybe let's get a look at him in training camp and preseason before declaring his arm strength this or that.

[tukafan21]

I think what people are missing in the arm strength debate with Bryce, is that yes, he has an adequate arm, which allows him to make all the throws with the necessary zip on them, but that's because he knows his limits and stays within them, which is great.

But he just flat out doesn't have that monster arm strength, and even with an NFL workout regimen, he's never going to have THAT kind of arm, which isn't the worst thing as many NFL QB's have been successful without it.

However, it does eliminate a growing element in the NFL today, and that's the uber deep ball to a speedster running a go-route.  Beyond it just being a great weapon to have as it can create monster game-changing plays, it also helps force defenses to account for it on every snap and tends to keep a safety deeper and thus take a defender out of the play on many snaps.

We won't ever have that with Bryce unfortunately, and for as great as Tyreek was with the Dolphins last year, it was clear that Tua doesn't have that monster arm either and it hurt their ability to tell Tyreek to run as fast as he can and just outrun everyone for a 70 yard bomb that guys like Mahomes can throw.  So many times last year Tyreek had the defense woefully beat and was already running behind them when he had to slow up and almost stop to catch the pass because Tua couldn't throw it far enough to allow him to keep running.

So I think people knocking his arm strength, at least I know it is with myself, isn't about him not being able to make the throws that he needs to make, but that it eliminates the possibility of a play that is becoming very useful in today's NFL, that's all.

Edited May 12, 2023 by tukafan21

[poundaway]