Ahead of first draft together, Dan Morgan and Dave Canales spent time on basics

[Carolina Panthers]

The Panthers new GM and head coach talked Thursday about how they went about setting standards for the team, before they got into the weeds of scouting, in hopes of building the alignment they want.

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[PanthersGTI]

This is the type of poo that should have been happening from day 1. Are you telling me Fitt just sat around and drafted players with no thought to scheme fit? THIS poo IS IN MADDEN. 

[MechaZain]

Here's where being a firsthand witness to Fitterer's downfall might pay off 

[CRA]

20 minutes ago, PanthersGTI said:

This is the type of poo that should have been happening from day 1. Are you telling me Fitt just sat around and drafted players with no thought to scheme fit? THIS poo IS IN MADDEN. 

certainly seemed like Fitt was in the random parts game.  That what 2023 was on just about every level. 

The coach/scheme didn't fit the QB.  The skill talent didn't fit the QB.  And it went accordingly.  At least on O....it certainly looked like random parts being forced together from the jump. 

[Johnstonny]

...well it is the bot....but we been missing on picks for quite some time...

[MHS831]

I hope their notes were reviewed and approved by Tepper.  Can not afford any draft day mistakes!!

[KSpan]

Holy jeebus, the bar is low for this franchise.

[Jackie Lee]

4 hours ago, CRA said:

certainly seemed like Fitt was in the random parts game.  That what 2023 was on just about every level. 

The coach/scheme didn't fit the QB.  The skill talent didn't fit the QB.  And it went accordingly.  At least on O....it certainly looked like random parts being forced together from the jump. 

And the whole trading away your WR1 to..draft a rookie qb

[rayzor]

I haven't seen the whole thing but what I saw I really liked.

Yeah....seems like a whole lot of "well....duh" basic poo, but that's what we've been missing here.

Everything they did has been hodge podge for years. There has been no real vision and no real collaboration. There's always just been one guy making the call on everything. It was Hurney, then Rhule, then Fitt.

Canales comes in "as a newb" eager to learn, but in the process he gets everyone on the same page. Starts with the basics and with that created a floor, a foundation, to build on.

Should they need to start over? No. Should they start over! Yes.

It's pathetic that we have to start all over. But that's where we are. Get over it and get past it.

We were built haphazardly. The closest abd most recent thing we've had to an actual decent plan was when we drafted Cam and out in what ever extra pieces we needed...namely two big vet TEs. We had the remnant of a decent OL and stud RBs and a legendary WR already here. There was very little we needed to succeed right out of the gate, but they knew a rookie QB was going to need a slid run game and big-time reliable passing targets including those stud RBs.

When after that initial year, things started falling to crap slowl and then Gettleman came and really started fugging things up like some kind of fat al pacino wannabe gangster.

Ever since then we've just thrown poo at the wall and hoped it worked. We tried to be clever without any clear vision of what we wanted the team to be. I think Rhule thought he did, but he was built for coaching motivating kids who don't know that he doesn't really know poo about football.

Point is, we've been walking around aimless for over a decade.

We now have it abd for that im especially grateful. Are they saying all the right things? I sure hope the hell they are because it sounds like they really know way they are doing.

One thing that I really appreciated was Canales giving the scouts unsolicited praise and talked about how they were brought into the meetings with the coaching staff who, coach by coach, position by position, said what they were looking for and then took the scouting work they had already done and continued it to prepare for this draft. It sounds like an actual collaboration where the scouts know what the coaches are looking for and work to pair up players with the team, trying to find, what they called, the right panther fit.

Again, sounds pretty elementary abd basic, but also again, this is something we haven't had. I remember going back to hurney's time I remember hearing sentiments from scouts who would do a ton of research on players leading up to the draft and when the draft was going on they would try to give their input based on months and sometimes years of watching these guys, going to their games, watching tape, meeting with players, teammates, position coaches, teachers, even family to try and get good insight on all the prospects, only to be treated like they weren't even in the room. They'd get excited about a pick coming up and who they thought would be a good fit and Hurney would just go another direction and then they would be questioning why they even bothered. Hurney did what Hurney was going to do without any input from anyone else.

Rhule did the same thing.

And then Fitt did the same damn thing after that power was taken away from Rhule.

Sorry for all the words, but I really do feel like we're heading in the right direction.

[pantherclaw]

The draft is next weekend??

Holy poo this off-season is FLYING by for me. 

Edited April 19 by pantherclaw

[Jackie Lee]

1 hour ago, rayzor said:

One thing that I really appreciated was Canales giving the scouts unsolicited praise and talked about how they were brought into the meetings with the coaching staff who, coach by coach, position by position, said what they were looking for and then took the scouting work they had already done and continued it to prepare for this draft. It sounds like an actual collaboration where the scouts know what the coaches are looking for and work to pair up players with the team, trying to find, what they called, the right panther fit.

 

Interesting thing there is how to interpret "BPA", when they're advising the scouts to look for specific fits for both sides of the ball. If literally the best player available is on the board and not a fit, do they skip them for someone they have ranked higher in the "fit" category?

[rayzor]

13 hours ago, Jackie Lee said:

Interesting thing there is how to interpret "BPA", when they're advising the scouts to look for specific fits for both sides of the ball. If literally the best player available is on the board and not a fit, do they skip them for someone they have ranked higher in the "fit" category?

You choose the best by the standards and criteria you set based on things you deem important.

There is no set ranking that everyone goes by. I think this where a lot of people get messed up thinking that everyone uses or has the same ranking of players or ranking system.

[strato]

10 hours ago, rayzor said:

I haven't seen the whole thing but what I saw I really liked.

Yeah....seems like a whole lot of "well....duh" basic poo, but that's what we've been missing here.

Everything they did has been hodge podge for years. There has been no real vision and no real collaboration. There's always just been one guy making the call on everything. It was Hurney, then Rhule, then Fitt.

Canales comes in "as a newb" eager to learn, but in the process he gets everyone on the same page. Starts with the basics and with that created a floor, a foundation, to build on.

Should they need to start over? No. Should they start over! Yes.

It's pathetic that we have to start all over. But that's where we are. Get over it and get past it.

We were built haphazardly. The closest abd most recent thing we've had to an actual decent plan was when we drafted Cam and out in what ever extra pieces we needed...namely two big vet TEs. We had the remnant of a decent OL and stud RBs and a legendary WR already here. There was very little we needed to succeed right out of the gate, but they knew a rookie QB was going to need a slid run game and big-time reliable passing targets including those stud RBs.

When after that initial year, things started falling to crap slowl and then Gettleman came and really started fugging things up like some kind of fat al pacino wannabe gangster.

Ever since then we've just thrown poo at the wall and hoped it worked. We tried to be clever without any clear vision of what we wanted the team to be. I think Rhule thought he did, but he was built for coaching motivating kids who don't know that he doesn't really know poo about football.

Point is, we've been walking around aimless for over a decade.

We now have it abd for that im especially grateful. Are they saying all the right things? I sure hope the hell they are because it sounds like they really know way they are doing.

One thing that I really appreciated was Canales giving the scouts unsolicited praise and talked about how they were brought into the meetings with the coaching staff who, coach by coach, position by position, said what they were looking for and then took the scouting work they had already done and continued it to prepare for this draft. It sounds like an actual collaboration where the scouts know what the coaches are looking for and work to pair up players with the team, trying to find, what they called, the right panther fit.

Again, sounds pretty elementary abd basic, but also again, this is something we haven't had. I remember going back to hurney's time I remember hearing sentiments from scouts who would do a ton of research on players leading up to the draft and when the draft was going on they would try to give their input based on months and sometimes years of watching these guys, going to their games, watching tape, meeting with players, teammates, position coaches, teachers, even family to try and get good insight on all the prospects, only to be treated like they weren't even in the room. They'd get excited about a pick coming up and who they thought would be a good fit and Hurney would just go another direction and then they would be questioning why they even bothered. Hurney did what Hurney was going to do without any input from anyone else.

Rhule did the same thing.

And then Fitt did the same damn thing after that power was taken away from Rhule.

Sorry for all the words, but I really do feel like we're heading in the right direction.

Aimless for over a decade disregards 2015. 

And this other thing, with the scouts being

"like they weren't even in the room. They'd get excited about a pick coming up and who they thought would be a good fit and Hurney would just go another direction and then they would be questioning why they even bothered. Hurney did what Hurney was going to do without any input from anyone else."

Is this documented or is it your interpretation of events?

Edited April 19 by strato

[KillerKat]

10 hours ago, rayzor said:

I haven't seen the whole thing but what I saw I really liked.

Yeah....seems like a whole lot of "well....duh" basic poo, but that's what we've been missing here.

Everything they did has been hodge podge for years. There has been no real vision and no real collaboration. There's always just been one guy making the call on everything. It was Hurney, then Rhule, then Fitt.

Canales comes in "as a newb" eager to learn, but in the process he gets everyone on the same page. Starts with the basics and with that created a floor, a foundation, to build on.

Should they need to start over? No. Should they start over! Yes.

It's pathetic that we have to start all over. But that's where we are. Get over it and get past it.

We were built haphazardly. The closest abd most recent thing we've had to an actual decent plan was when we drafted Cam and out in what ever extra pieces we needed...namely two big vet TEs. We had the remnant of a decent OL and stud RBs and a legendary WR already here. There was very little we needed to succeed right out of the gate, but they knew a rookie QB was going to need a slid run game and big-time reliable passing targets including those stud RBs.

When after that initial year, things started falling to crap slowl and then Gettleman came and really started fugging things up like some kind of fat al pacino wannabe gangster.

Ever since then we've just thrown poo at the wall and hoped it worked. We tried to be clever without any clear vision of what we wanted the team to be. I think Rhule thought he did, but he was built for coaching motivating kids who don't know that he doesn't really know poo about football.

Point is, we've been walking around aimless for over a decade.

We now have it abd for that im especially grateful. Are they saying all the right things? I sure hope the hell they are because it sounds like they really know way they are doing.

One thing that I really appreciated was Canales giving the scouts unsolicited praise and talked about how they were brought into the meetings with the coaching staff who, coach by coach, position by position, said what they were looking for and then took the scouting work they had already done and continued it to prepare for this draft. It sounds like an actual collaboration where the scouts know what the coaches are looking for and work to pair up players with the team, trying to find, what they called, the right panther fit.

Again, sounds pretty elementary abd basic, but also again, this is something we haven't had. I remember going back to hurney's time I remember hearing sentiments from scouts who would do a ton of research on players leading up to the draft and when the draft was going on they would try to give their input based on months and sometimes years of watching these guys, going to their games, watching tape, meeting with players, teammates, position coaches, teachers, even family to try and get good insight on all the prospects, only to be treated like they weren't even in the room. They'd get excited about a pick coming up and who they thought would be a good fit and Hurney would just go another direction and then they would be questioning why they even bothered. Hurney did what Hurney was going to do without any input from anyone else.

Rhule did the same thing.

And then Fitt did the same damn thing after that power was taken away from Rhule.

Sorry for all the words, but I really do feel like we're heading in the right direction.

Ive been saying for 15-20 years, any time this franchise has a little success the FO starts acting like we are big shots and they start throwing their dicks around as if we are a multi-Super Bowl winning team. They get complacent and keep doing the same things over and over again despite the league always changing year after year.  They think their way is the only way. We need to get these large egos out of the FO and actually address weaknesses, doing smarter things with the cap, and keep improving.