Josh Norris: Panthers-Garrett Wilson trade options

[tukafan21]

20 minutes ago, Aussie Tank said:

Nah it's pretty embarrassing that your calling him a better receiving talent than Mike Evans when he's not even a better draft prospect. Let alone the 100 touchdowns and 12000 odd yards 

Just in terms of comparing them as prospects....

I'm not going to try and pretend I remember Evans' draft profile from a dozen years ago, so just looking at stats after you remove T-Mac's Freshman year, where he still had 700 yards and 8 TDs (and only because Evans redshirted and then only played 2 years in college).

Evans - 151 catches for 2,499 yards, and 17 TDs

T-Mac - 174 catches for 2,721 yards and 18 TDs

So I'm not sure how you can say definitively Evans was a better prospect than T-Mac is, especially when Evans wasn't a speedster anyways (ran a 4.53), which is really the only knock people have on T-Mac, and then T-Mac had better stats across the board.

[tukafan21]

49 minutes ago, Aussie Tank said:

Nah it's pretty embarrassing that your calling him a better receiving talent than Mike Evans when he's not even a better draft prospect. Let alone the 100 touchdowns and 12000 odd yards 

Then in regards to your continued refusal to separate Evans' career numbers, which are more due to long term health than sustained elite play, from who he was as an actual player at any given moment....

As I said the other night, I'll give you Evans' elite TD production, but also as I said, that's where T-Mac would be most likely to replicate Evan's NFL game, considering how great of a redzone weapon he's going to be.  Even if he doesn't become a huge yardage guy, he's going to score a poo ton of TD's with his size and hands.

But you really need to stop talking about Evans' 12,000 career yards as some proof of him being an actual elite WR on the field of play and not when looking at an overall career statistical output.

Evans' 3rd best yardage season out of 11 seasons was 1,255 in 17 games.  His 3rd best reception season was 79 catches, he's never had a single 100 catch season (his best was 96).

He was never a 1st team All Pro and was only a 2nd team AP twice, which means 9 of his 11 seasons, voters didn't ever have him as a Top 3 WR and was only even Top 6 twice.

It's not a knock on Evans, he's a HOFer, but he will get into Canton because of his long term sustained great play, not because he was ever a true elite WR for more than maybe 1 or 2 season's of his entire career.  

Mike Evans is the Frank Gore of WRs

As I said the other night, saying X player will be better than Y player, isn't saying X player will have a better career than Y player.  The only thing you can predict with long term health and availability is in the negative, you can predict someone will struggle with it if they already have (which T-Mac hasn't).  But trying to predict who will be able to play for 10+ years without ever getting hurt vs someone who is going to be truly elite for half the time but not the other due to injury, is a literal crap shoot that isn't predictable.

Hence me saying T-Mac will be better than Evans is me saying in a vacuum he'll be a better player, but if he'll have a better career it will come down to how long he's able to sustain being a better player than Evans, which is unpredictable for any player at any position in any league.

If you view Evans as being a legit true elite WR outside of maybe 2 seasons, then that's the hangup, and really, it's on you, because again, 2nd team all pro twice, never first, hard to argue against that even before you dig into the numbers themselves, which don't support your argument either.

5 of Evans' 11 seasons have been between 1,001 and 1,051 yards.  If each of those 5 seasons ends up at 999 or less yards, there is a very different narrative on Evans, in that he was a true elite red zone weapon, but only a pretty good WR outside of that.  

The 11 years of 1k narrative is HUGE to what his legacy is, it's undeniable.

Edited February 6, 2025 by tukafan21

[Adb6368]

54 minutes ago, tukafan21 said:

Then in regards to your continued refusal to separate Evans' career numbers, which are more due to long term health than sustained elite play, from who he was as an actual player at any given moment....

As I said the other night, I'll give you Evans' elite TD production, but also as I said, that's where T-Mac would be most likely to replicate Evan's NFL game, considering how great of a redzone weapon he's going to be.  Even if he doesn't become a huge yardage guy, he's going to score a poo ton of TD's with his size and hands.

But you really need to stop talking about Evans' 12,000 career yards as some proof of him being an actual elite WR on the field of play and not when looking at an overall career statistical output.

Evans' 3rd best yardage season out of 11 seasons was 1,255 in 17 games.  His 3rd best reception season was 79 catches, he's never had a single 100 catch season (his best was 96).

He was never a 1st team All Pro and was only a 2nd team AP twice, which means 9 of his 11 seasons, voters didn't ever have him as a Top 3 WR and was only even Top 6 twice.

It's not a knock on Evans, he's a HOFer, but he will get into Canton because of his long term sustained great play, not because he was ever a true elite WR for more than maybe 1 or 2 season's of his entire career.  

Mike Evans is the Frank Gore of WRs

As I said the other night, saying X player will be better than Y player, isn't saying X player will have a better career than Y player.  The only thing you can predict with long term health and availability is in the negative, you can predict someone will struggle with it if they already have (which T-Mac hasn't).  But trying to predict who will be able to play for 10+ years without ever getting hurt vs someone who is going to be truly elite for half the time but not the other due to injury, is a literal crap shoot that isn't predictable.

Hence me saying T-Mac will be better than Evans is me saying in a vacuum he'll be a better player, but if he'll have a better career it will come down to how long he's able to sustain being a better player than Evans, which is unpredictable for any player at any position in any league.

If you view Evans as being a legit true elite WR outside of maybe 2 seasons, then that's the hangup, and really, it's on you, because again, 2nd team all pro twice, never first, hard to argue against that even before you dig into the numbers themselves, which don't support your argument either.

5 of Evans' 11 seasons have been between 1,001 and 1,051 yards.  If each of those 5 seasons ends up at 999 or less yards, there is a very different narrative on Evans, in that he was a true elite red zone weapon, but only a pretty good WR outside of that.  

The 11 years of 1k narrative is HUGE to what his legacy is, it's undeniable.

I’m not sure what Mike Evans did to offend you but if we draft a WR at 8 that is Mike Evans I think everyone in Carolina would be ecstatic 

[tukafan21]

16 minutes ago, Adb6368 said:

I’m not sure what Mike Evans did to offend you but if we draft a WR at 8 that is Mike Evans I think everyone in Carolina would be ecstatic 

I have nothing against Mike Evans, it's that he keeps saying it's ridiculous for me to think T-Mac will be a better player than Evans, based on Evans totality of his career statistical output.

They're not the same thing, at all.  Basically what he's arguing is that it would be insane for someone to say any RB coming into the league is going to be better than Frank Gore.  There are going to be LOTS of RBs over the years who are better than Gore but will never make the HOF.  

Or how about comparing a QB to Rivers or Eli?  There are going to be a lot of QBs that you'd predict will be better, and for a period of time will be, but they won't be able to do it long enough to have the same career as those guys.

Longevity of great play does not equal an elite player, it equals an elite career.  If you're building a team for one season, health aside and looking at peak performance, there are way too many WRs over the last decade that I'd take over Evans to consider him a true elite WR in my mind.

For example, I looked it up, here is where he has finished every season ranked in Receptions and Yards

2014 - 36th in Rec and 19th in Yds

2015 - 30 and 11

2016 - 6 and 4

2017 - 23 and 15

2018 - 17 and 3

2019 - 36 and 13

2020 - 32 and 18

2021 - 28 and 22

2022 - 25 and 13

2023 - 24 and 9

2024 - 28 and 23

He's played 11 seasons, only twice finished higher than 23rd in receptions and 3 times in the Top 10 in yards, 5 of the 11 outside the Top 15.  Outside of 2016 and 2018, he really wasn't ever an elite WR outside of being an elite red zone threat.  

Evans was a great WR who had an elite career, not an elite WR

Edited February 6, 2025 by tukafan21

[Shocker]

11 hours ago, tukafan21 said:

Throw every current WR in the league into a new draft of only WRs and I honestly don't think Wilson is getting taken in the Top 15, certainly not in the Top 10.

If you want to argue that Wilson's floor is higher than T-Mac's because he's already proven to be a 1k yard WR in the league, I'll accept that on the basis of proven vs potential alone.  

But T-Mac's ceiling is 100% higher than Wilson's and it's not even close.

[Icege]

This is starting to match @rippadonn's Matt Corral obsession.

[MHS831]

11 hours ago, tukafan21 said:

Then in regards to your continued refusal to separate Evans' career numbers, which are more due to long term health than sustained elite play, from who he was as an actual player at any given moment....

As I said the other night, I'll give you Evans' elite TD production, but also as I said, that's where T-Mac would be most likely to replicate Evan's NFL game, considering how great of a redzone weapon he's going to be.  Even if he doesn't become a huge yardage guy, he's going to score a poo ton of TD's with his size and hands.

But you really need to stop talking about Evans' 12,000 career yards as some proof of him being an actual elite WR on the field of play and not when looking at an overall career statistical output.

Evans' 3rd best yardage season out of 11 seasons was 1,255 in 17 games.  His 3rd best reception season was 79 catches, he's never had a single 100 catch season (his best was 96).

He was never a 1st team All Pro and was only a 2nd team AP twice, which means 9 of his 11 seasons, voters didn't ever have him as a Top 3 WR and was only even Top 6 twice.

It's not a knock on Evans, he's a HOFer, but he will get into Canton because of his long term sustained great play, not because he was ever a true elite WR for more than maybe 1 or 2 season's of his entire career.  

Mike Evans is the Frank Gore of WRs

As I said the other night, saying X player will be better than Y player, isn't saying X player will have a better career than Y player.  The only thing you can predict with long term health and availability is in the negative, you can predict someone will struggle with it if they already have (which T-Mac hasn't).  But trying to predict who will be able to play for 10+ years without ever getting hurt vs someone who is going to be truly elite for half the time but not the other due to injury, is a literal crap shoot that isn't predictable.

Hence me saying T-Mac will be better than Evans is me saying in a vacuum he'll be a better player, but if he'll have a better career it will come down to how long he's able to sustain being a better player than Evans, which is unpredictable for any player at any position in any league.

If you view Evans as being a legit true elite WR outside of maybe 2 seasons, then that's the hangup, and really, it's on you, because again, 2nd team all pro twice, never first, hard to argue against that even before you dig into the numbers themselves, which don't support your argument either.

5 of Evans' 11 seasons have been between 1,001 and 1,051 yards.  If each of those 5 seasons ends up at 999 or less yards, there is a very different narrative on Evans, in that he was a true elite red zone weapon, but only a pretty good WR outside of that.  

The 11 years of 1k narrative is HUGE to what his legacy is, it's undeniable.

I have not researched either side, so I do not have a dog in this fight, but I would like to point out that you present your points using data, stats, and specific parallels.  You don't attack the opposing person, you attack their viewpoint.  Well done.  We need more of this type of posting whether I agree with your views or not.

Edited February 6, 2025 by MHS831

[amcoolio]

I like Wilson but he is not worth the 8th overall pick 

Now if we trade down to like 20 and pick up a high 2nd or a 2026 first, and then trade 20 for Wilson, sure

[t96]

Wilson is a fine player but not worth #8 to us, not even close. Grab a young BPA (ideally defense) on rookie contract with 5th year option. We need impact players and long term core pieces, NOT guys like Wilson.

[Wood228]

Any of the D-Line guys from UGA or Will Campbell need to come before any WR

 

[Jon Snow]

4 hours ago, Icege said:

This is starting to match @rippadonn's Matt Corral obsession.

I think he's the kids agent.

[La Pantera]

I wouldn’t trade #8 for Wilson. Maybe a ‘26 1st.

also wouldn’t be thrilled about Tmac. At #8. Looks like a 4.6 in game player. He has great catch radius and hands. But looks like a pure possession threat. 

We honestly need a sure fire deep threat at WR.

[RumHam]

On 2/5/2025 at 2:20 AM, jfra78 said:

I would rather do this than draft WR in the 1st

we aren't drafting a WR at 8, sorry. get that out of your head.

[RumHam]

i think a second and conditional fifth would work if he wants out bad enough. Taking Wilson for a 2nd would be a better route than drafting a WR in the 2nd.

 

Because we cannot draft WR's in the second round. IF we do in the future, he will be a bust. the prophecy is foretold.