All-22 Review of the first team offense vs. Houston

[WUnderhill]

1 hour ago, Tr3ach said:

I would say he knew by the fact Sanders was nowhere to be seen in the play when he was supposed to be the check down.   Ive not seen the all 22 so I dont know if he could have seen the actual hold or not.

I’ve been a Panthers fan long enough to know no matter how obvious it looks, the refs can always find a way to screw us. I’m not losing any sleep over it, but if we’re nitpicking I’d say from my perspective that one might feel better as a throw away. Then again, I also understand swinging for the fences if you think there’s no risk. I’d be curious what conversations the coaches and Bryce have about that one behind closed doors, though I’m sure we’ll never know considering how inconsequential it is.

[mrcompletely11]

4 minutes ago, WUnderhill said:

I’ve been a Panthers fan long enough to know no matter how obvious it looks, the refs can always find a way to screw us. I’m not losing any sleep over it, but if we’re nitpicking I’d say from my perspective that one might feel better as a throw away. Then again, I also understand swinging for the fences if you think there’s no risk. I’d be curious what conversations the coaches and Bryce have about that one behind closed doors, though I’m sure we’ll never know considering how inconsequential it is.

I really dont have an issue with it simply because its preseason, I doubt he would (or hope) do that in the regular season.  But I dont think its definitive that he saw or knew what the flag was for but I kind of like he being risky and seeing what he can do........in the preseason.

[WUnderhill]

12 hours ago, Icege said:

 

 

“Covered like a wet blanket” “Subpar QB with subpar throw letting all pro db break up the pass”

Some definite unbiased educated opinions from the game thread. Must have been a Texans fan.

[WUnderhill]

3 minutes ago, mrcompletely11 said:

I really dont have an issue with it simply because its preseason, I doubt he would (or hope) do that in the regular season.  But I dont think its definitive that he saw or knew what the flag was for but I kind of like he being risky and seeing what he can do........in the preseason.

I agree if viewing the preseason through that lens of testing and taking risks when the games don’t matter. Are we doing that or treating these like real games to assess decisions that might be made in real games? My guess is somewhere in between. I wish we had a reporter who would ask questions like that instead of stupid stuff. Like asking Legette over and over about whether his off-season boxing training made him fight. Or how about, hey coach, how do you balance having Idzik calling preseason plays vs using these games as dress rehearsals? Does the fact that you call the plays in the joint practice just like you will in the regular season mean that you are relying on the joint practices to evaluate where your team is at for the regular season more than the preseason games? We have such bad reporters and we’re always guessing at everything.

[Icege]

16 minutes ago, WUnderhill said:

“Covered like a wet blanket” “Subpar QB with subpar throw letting all pro db break up the pass”

Some definite unbiased educated opinions from the game thread. Must have been a Texans fan.

Broadcast replays I mentioned yesterday that I forgot to grab:

[Carolina Cajun]

12 hours ago, kungfoodude said:

I couldn't tell if Bryce saw the flag or not live. If he could, no harm, no foul. If he couldn't, absolutely inexcusable.

I will say that IMO that pass to TMac was a poorly thrown ball due to the pass rush. He needs to throw it better but with half the line getting dump trucked, I can't beat Bryce up too bad.

As poorly as the first unit offense played, I honestly think the defense is still a much greater concern. 

I do wish maybe we could have seen a series or two more of the starters. 

I think we're stuck in limbo with defense, I think our starters will be fine, not elite, but fine, but any injuries and then flood gates open.  We have ZERO depth.

[Navy_football]

2 hours ago, *FreeFua* said:

Would be curious to know why TMac flattened out his route like that. Bryce threw it to where he thought TMac was going 

This miscommunication and the one last week in the end zone where TMac didn’t get his head around fast enough is why these guys should’ve got more reps during the preseason

You beat me to it. He all of a sudden started running horizontally down the 50 yard line instead of getting depth upfield like he was the entire route. Like he was prepping to just jump and catch it, but misread how far it was. Just not on the same page.

First play, I would have loved if Bryce targetted XL early. Man to man with a CB on his hip - just give him a chance like you did in practice - and there was safety help! Don't start getting conservative on us now. TMac and XL need to get that ball whenever they're facing man without safety help over the top. No QB in the NFL was gonna make that throw when he finally let it go though. It wasn't possible. Maybe just hoping for a PI. And he definitely saw the flag and knew why it was thrown. 

2nd play. Yeah Chuba gave up on the play too early and went rogue. No worries. We know how he runs during the season. 

JT has to catch the third pass. Nothing else to say.

Next series, first play. Bryce was looking to throw to XL, who ran a horrible route. Looked like it was supposed to be a deep out - maybe a choice. I don't know what he ran, particularly with no sideline equity. Bryce could have fired it into TMac early on the crosser, but was too late after he came off of XL - yes it was a 2 man route and a bad playcall against the coverage.

Second play. I don't blame that one on Ickey as much as Hunt. He was supposed to come off the double and get the LB - who was in there in a hurry, maybe he was run blitzing. Chuba was looking for the cut back, but that LB prevented it. You could see Hunt tapping his helmet as if to say "my bad" 

Third play. Again, would have loved to see Bryce put it up to XL on that one. But I get it. Houston is just a really good defense. They get after you and force mistakes. Somebody said Herbert could have made that throw on the first play of the game. You mean the same Herbert that threw 4 INTs to Houston in the playoffs last season? Surely you didn't mean him. And if he didn't have Ladd in that game, it would have been much much worse.

My verdict. Not as bad as I first thought. Just clean up a few plays/assignments. Not enough time to get in a groove. And... Bryce needs to stay friggin aggressive! He's much more exciting reading deep to shallow. I don't like dink and dunk Bryce nearly as much. XL, TMac and JT are downfield guys anyway. And at the end of the day - chicks dig the long ball. 

 

 

[raleigh-panther]

14 hours ago, Icege said:

Intro
Was hoping to be able to put this together this morning after seeing that NFL Pro has been updated to include preseason All-22, but $500+ in car repairs later I'm working on it now this evening.

After getting to review the film, I'm not nearly as concerned with the offensive showing as I was. While some fans are looking for 300 yards and 5 TDs in preseason, 0/2 seems pretty terrible until we look at the film. There is a lot of stuff to be hopeful about, but there's also plenty to get cleaned up as well. Let's dive into the tape!

First Series - First Play
Panthers in 11 personnel, Texans in their Buffalo nickel package. Texans have their full starting defense while Carolina has their current 1st strings (JT0 for Tremble, Mays for DLew). Carolina lines up with trips to the field side and JT0 inline towards the boundary. XL motions from the slot and seems to have trouble getting lined up correctly but Bryce helps him out. This is that horrible throw to start the game. The OL sells wide zone left and Bryce pulls it down. JT0 does a great job slinging Will Anderson Jr to the inside, but WAJ holds JT0 and drags him to the ground as Bryce rolls right. Sanders would've likely been the checkdown option to gain a couple of yards, but is taken out of the play. Flags are thrown, Bryce sees the penalty and the flags, spots XL over top of Stingley (image below), and tries to get it to him. The throw is bad, but it's the right decision. TMac is bracketed, Sanders is on the turf, and going to AT would've been the cardinal sin of throwing across the QB's body. Bryce slings it just before getting hit out of bounds. If he's given the time to plant and throw, that's six. Penalty ends up negating the INT.

Below, you can see the moment that Bryce sees the flag come in for WAJ holding Sanders (who is down on the ground to the bottom left). TMac is bracketed above. He spots XL behind Stingley just after this moment and continues to the boundary where he makes the throw.

Verdict: A stronger-armed QB possibly makes that throw to XL rather than Stingley, but we see Bryce getting XL situated pre-snap. This is good and showing ownership of the offense by QB1. If not for the penalty, Sanders might be out there in the flats open or at least buying Bryce more time since the two defenders bearing down on him would've at least needed to have one back off to cover the TE. The Texans also are showing TMac a lot of respect by making it a point to bracket him off the rip.

First Series - Second Play
No personnel change from the opening play. Panthers line up in a similar formation, only with trips to the field side rather than in a bunch. Thielen goes in motion and the ball is handed off to Chuba for just a 2yd gain before Will Anderson Jr collapses the edge from the backside due to coming in unblocked. Looking at this play, while I can't say for certain as I'm not in the room with the team obviously, but it appears like JT0 was supposed to block WAJ rather than going to the second level to block the LB. With the combo blocks taking place, it looks like this was a run play with a designed cutback in mind. This was also against eight in the box.

However, looking at the above snapshot I can't help but wonder if Chuba was supposed to hit the hole to the left between Icky and Mays. If that's the case, then JT's climbing to the second level and leaving WAJ unblocked makes more sense.

Verdict: However, looking at the above capture, Chuba might have seen #98 Tim Settle sliding into the gap and made the decision to cut back into the waiting arms of WAJ. To me, this is good defense by the Texans.

First Series - Third Play
Same personnel for both teams again. Panthers line up in the shotgun. Ball is snapped and Mays + TMo get bulldozed backwards causing Bryce to have to drop back more. TMac runs an in route and comes open, but isn't able to come down with it. The throw is a little high, but that's why he was the first WR drafted and went in the top-10. If he doesn't flatten his route as early as he does then he's in a better spot where that ball should be easier to come down with. At the same time, this looks like it's supposed to be an in rather than a crosser. The capture below shows the start and end of the route where the drop takes place with X's and the ? is where his route would have carried him had he not flattened it out.

TMac also needs to use both hands. He's more than capable of the one-handed highlight reel grabs, but if he snatches this with both paws then MJ Stewart isn't dislodging it by slapping his elbow like he did here.

Verdict: A QB and his rookie WR are still building chemistry. If Bryce doesn't put this as high as he does, it's easier for TMac to come down with MJ Stewart isn't able to break it up. If TMac doesn't flatten out his route too early and uses both hands, the ball is in an easier place for him to shield it with his body. I expect both guys to learn from this tape and work even further on their chemistry + timing.

First Series - Fourth Play
Same personnel groupings for both teams, except Carolina subs in Rico for Chuba and Brycen Tremayne in for XL (). The Texans go with Mario Edwards in for Settle and EJ Speed in for To'oTo'o. Panthers start out in the shotgun with five wide (trips to the right). Bryce scans the defense and calls for Dowdle to motion into the backfield. Once Dowdle gets back there, Bryce points out the mike (Speed) who has creeped up to the LOS for Dowdle to watch (image below. Corbett echoes the call, points out Speed, and snaps the ball. Speed runs a stunt which Dowdle picks up.

Ball is snapped and Bryce first looks to the left at TMac who is 1v1 outside. The deep safety breaks for TMac, leaving the middle of the field open for Sanders who is running an in route (image below). Bryce fires and hits JT directly in the hands and he drops it all on his own. Stingley was unable to make the play on the ball and was draped around JT0's waist.

At first glance back at the All-22, I thought that Stingley might have gotten a hand in there to cause a PBU. Watching live, I thought I recalled a slow motion of the play showing that it hits Sanders in the hands and he just dropped it. I've got the capture below showing the moment it bounces off, but am about to put little dude to bed and still have the three plays from the second series to review so I'll have to wait until I get back to go through the broadcast to find that moment (if I'm remembering correctly, of course).

Verdict: JT0 has to catch that. Third down, Bryce makes all of the right pre- and post-snap reads/responses, and to not be that reliable safety valve on third down that TEs are supposed to be hurts. Tremble is coming back, and while Sanders is arguably the better receiver it is without a doubt that Tommy is currently the more reliable player (so long as there's no lingering issues from back surgery, of course). I wouldn't be surprised, should Sanders/Evans/Mitchell not separate themselves from the rest of the room and supplant Tremble, if the team spends more resources on finding an impact player for the group. This also shows the type of effect that TMac is already having on opposing defenses. The Texans bracketed him on the very first play of the game, and the safety was clearly making taking him away in this play the priority. As McMillan continues to find his stride in the NFL, things are going to open up even more for this offense.

TBD
I've got the second series queued up and ready to go after I'm informed whether or not the monsters down the hallway are indeed sleeping and it is safe for me to leave sentry duty to one of the cats instead.

Thank you for all of your work 

[Icege]

19 minutes ago, Navy_football said:

Second play. I don't blame that one on Ickey as much as Hunt. He was supposed to come off the double and get the LB - who was in there in a hurry, maybe he was run blitzing. Chuba was looking for the cut back, but that LB prevented it. You could see Hunt tapping his helmet as if to say "my bad" 

Great catch! I completely missed that by Hunt afterwards and after looking at what you had pointed out that ILB looks like he came downhill in a hurry and Hunt should've come off of his block sooner. That would have allowed Chuba to have taken the cutback for a greater gain (or at least, less traffic to deal with).

Would have also made Icky's block being a shed a non-factor.

Plays like this and all of these little mistakes that we see kicking us in the dick is also giving me hope because it's just a liiiiiittle more development (plus a liiiiiittle bit more luck) away from the bounces going the Panthers' way.

[kungfoodude]

13 hours ago, PantherChris said:

He definitely saw the flag its literally right in front of his face if he didn't see it we have the larger issue of having a legally blind starting QB

Watch the play live, it would be possible to miss that scrambling away from pressure. 

A screenshot makes it seem much easier than it actually was, I am sure.

I certainly hope he saw it because it's a Bryce 1.0 throw, if not.

[Bear Hands]

That was a 1st unit vs. a 1st unit situation.  Will Anderson seems primed to have a fairly monster year.  I think he's going to be a problem and Houston's defense is stacked.  We didn't fair well but the breakdown does show they just locked us up. It's indicative we may struggle against the top-10 defenses no doubt.  

But I'll say, league-wide, you've got the vets (Watt/Parsons/Bosa/Hendrickson/Hunter) and the guys in prime like Hutch, Garrett, Crosby that are the elite edge rushers.  But of the young guys, it's WAJ, Verse, Chop, and Carter are about to pop.  Seems like the next wave of elite talent so I will give a bit of grace here considering the Texans have 2 top dawgs at the edge.  Tough matchup.      

Outside of Bryce hopefully improving, there's three BIG things this year that need to happen that this helps highlight:

• We really need diversify our run game (our OL can handle Gap, Wide-Zone, P&P, Inside-Zone...I don't see why we need stay so vanilla) 
• McMillan is a given needing to hit the ground running -- but one of Sanders/XL/Coker needs to really come into their own and be a reliable hitter.  Cannot rely on Thielen at his age
• Icky needs to build off last season's developments; he's not out of the woods yet IMO and needs to show he's worth a 2nd contract  

 

[jb2288]

51 minutes ago, Navy_football said:

Somebody said Herbert could have made that throw on the first play of the game. You mean the same Herbert that threw 4 INTs to Houston in the playoffs last season? Surely you didn't mean him. And if he didn't have Ladd in that game, it would have been much much worse.

 

 

 

That was me. Point being there are very few QBs in the history of the sport who have the arm to make that throw. Herbert possess the physical talent. 

[PantherChris]

17 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

Watch the play live, it would be possible to miss that scrambling away from pressure. 

A screenshot makes it seem much easier than it actually was, I am sure.

I certainly hope he saw it because it's a Bryce 1.0 throw, if not.

I have watched it live and that flag literally flys right in front of his face nothing else on the feild is yellow he saw it lol.

[ForJimmy]

3 minutes ago, PantherChris said:

I have watched it live and that flag literally flys right in front of his face nothing else on the feild is yellow he saw it lol.

I also wonder if Sanders was suppose to break free for a quick route in that play.  Watching him get taken out of the play would be an easy indicator of what the flag was for.  It's hard to sit back and play Monday Morning QB without knowing the exact plays they were running.