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What we need to see from Sammy D in OTAs


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6 minutes ago, BrianS said:

Setting aside the obvious, which is waiting for the season to play out, the question you need to ask right now is "Do you believe the Panthers overall offensive personnel, outside the QB room, is average or better?"  Let's examine that.

Start with the WR's.  I honestly believe our WR room is one of the best in the league.  DJ and Robby left no doubts last year.  It was very clear that their production was held down by the limitations at QB.  The scary part is they were already a top 5 WR duo.  Marshall should easily replace Samuel's production in the slot, if not more.

Our TE room is still not great, but I'm also not sure that Joe Brady's offense really requires it.  In an LSU offense with 400 receptions, their TE's only caught about 60 balls all year.  I just don't think it's as important.  Still, I believe we've improved that room this offseason.  I would call them average.  Certainly not high end, but average.

Our RB room is great.  Setting aside the question of workload balance, you have Christian McCaffrey.  He is one of the best in the league, if not THE best.  Blah blah health issues, workload.  I GET IT.  We drafted a guy who seems to fit, and we have a couple on the roster who have done alright when called on.  All that said, you have to say our RB room is top 5.

Our OL is probably still average.  Make no mistake, it was average last year.  Pretty sure we wound up 18th overall.  If we've improved, we could be 11 to 13 this year.  That's an above average room.  No, not top 5, probably not quite top 10, but not cringe worthy either.  Solid, but not spectacular.

Put all that together, and what do you have?

You have a Panthers offense that is poised to be easily a top 10 offense, and probably a bit more, maybe even a top 5 offense.  WITHOUT considering the QB position.  Which leads us to Sam Darnold.

He doesn't have any excuses this year.  None.  He can't.  He's got NFL experience, so he understands the speed of the game and what is expected.  He has a team around him with the talent to go places.  BIG places.  If you really want to understand, flip the script.

If you drop Aaron Rodgers, Russell Wilson, Tom Brady, Patrick Mahomes, Kyler Murray, Justin Herbert . . . into this offense, how does it fare?  Forget salary concerns, just look at the talent.  Even guys who are "just" good QB's like Tannehill or Carr . . . come on man.  This offense is easily top 5.

So that's really what Darnold is up against.  No excuses.  The talent is there.  He simply has to play like a real NFL QB.  Sam has to produce.

 

 

TOP 5?   Come on, you're punishing this coaching staff because they offensively exceeded expectations last year by putting even crazier expectations on them in just their second year of the rebuild.  I'll be happy if we have a top 15 offense. 

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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, NAS said:

THIS.  Everyone talking about how Sam just needs to be himself but putting all the pressure on him

 

 

The pressure will be there regardless.

1. because its the QB position.

2. because of this being a "prove it" season no matter how you look at it. 

3. because now there's pressure on the coaching staff who may or may not know how to evaluate a QB

Buttttt... the Panthers organization has done a great job of building confidence in him. They 100% believe in him (until they don't, saw that with teddy). Also, we aren't a big market team even if the media always does what they can to make a story, but being in Carolina won't include having the spotlight on Sam 24/7 (like NY) 

Edited by CarolinaLivin
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Been thinking a lot about this, but the one thing I want to see is him stepping into the leadership role here. He needs to make this his team...his offense, and the rest of the team needs to start looking at him as a leader right away.

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32 minutes ago, NAS said:

TOP 5?   Come on, you're punishing this coaching staff because they offensively exceeded expectations last year by putting even crazier expectations on them in just their second year of the rebuild.  I'll be happy if we have a top 15 offense. 

How did they exceed expectations?  They regressed!  In 2019 we ranked 19th in total yards, and 20th in total points.  In 2020, we ranked 22nd in total yards and 24th in total points!  To me, we *massively* underachieved on offense.  Remember, 2019 was Kyle Allen at QB.

I hate to say it, but I think we would have won more games last year with KA under center.

I'm so tired of the excuses man.  We have "offensive guru" Joe Brady running the show here.  We have amazing talent at all the the skill positions except TE - which may not even matter in this offense.  We have a line that grades out average or better.

Take away the QB!  Who has a better offense than we do?  KC, I'll give you, they were great with Alex Smith and terrifying with Mahomes.  Titans, Bucs, Vikings . . . maybe.  But past that it's QB's making the difference.

Not expecting production from this offense is another year of "missed opportunities" man, and I don't think I can stomach that.  Sam has nothing standing in the way of him showing us he is a franchise guy.  He either shows he's the guy, or he doesn't.  There is no alternative.

Bear in mind, KC tossed away a guy who was 50-26, with a 3:1 TD to INT ratio because he wasn't good enough.  I'm not saying Sam needs to be that, but it sure wouldn't hurt.

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8 hours ago, NanuqoftheNorth said:

Did I say that?  I don't think I said that.

The point I was attempting to make was that even great QB's require capable teammates to succeed in the NFL. 

Yes, there are also plenty of QB's that haven't made it at the professional level.  SD's future is YTBD, but writing him off based on his performance with the NY Jets would be a mistake IMHO.  

You sort of did. I will say that some of the guys considered "great" QB's definitely benefitted from the situations they were in, like a Terry Bradshaw. I think that was a little true more in the pre-free agency era where keeping a dynasty was much easier.

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Posted (edited)
35 minutes ago, BrianS said:

How did they exceed expectations?  They regressed!  In 2019 we ranked 19th in total yards, and 20th in total points.  In 2020, we ranked 22nd in total yards and 24th in total points!  To me, we *massively* underachieved on offense.  Remember, 2019 was Kyle Allen at QB.

Because it was a total rebuild.  Everyone thought we would be getting the #1 pick in 2021 so you can't possibly compare 2020 to 2019.

Edited by NAS
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20 hours ago, OldhamA said:

I love that people think that now he's out of the 'pressure cooker' of the NY market he'll have more space to breathe.

Half the fan base is ready to jump down his throat the first time he throws an INT because he's not the particular brand of 2021 rookie that they tied their colours to. 

He knows this is his make or break year if he wants to be a starting NFL QB.

Especially passing on Fields and Matt Jones.

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3 hours ago, SmittysLawnGuy said:

Ever heard of a salary cap? Also a lot of us pay good coin towards the product that they waltz out there. So in essence, damn right it's our money.

 

When you willingly purchase something it's no longer your money.  Buying a car doesn't give you say in the company. Too funny.

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1 hour ago, rayzor said:

Been thinking a lot about this, but the one thing I want to see is him stepping into the leadership role here. He needs to make this his team...his offense, and the rest of the team needs to start looking at him as a leader right away.

You mean a Cam style leader, very vocal and "Alpha?" 

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Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

You mean a Cam style leader, very vocal and "Alpha?" 

Vocal isn't necessary based on history of successful QBs. The good ones generally haven't been terribly so. Most are more concerned with preparation than appearing to be alpha.

The overly alpha thing hasn't actually worked took well.

Edited by Moo Daeng
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Just now, Moo Daeng said:

Vocal isn't necessary based on history of successful QBs. The good ones generally haven't been.

I would certainly disagree with that. Brady and Manning are two examples of very vocal on field leaders. 

But not all elite or good QB's are vocal leaders, that I would agree with. Some are "lead by example" types. That was where I departed from some of the criticisms thrown at Fields as a prospect. The fact he was quiet or reserved in interviews didn't make me think he couldn't be a leader at QB.

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17 hours ago, Trainwreck said:

We’ll be like the Browns when they passed on Mahomes and Watson. 

Yeah, Myles Garrett was a beast, but I bet they would do it differently if they could re-pick. At least they didn't screw up as bad as the bears with Trubinsky.  Just please try to refrain from likening us to the frikken Browns in the future.

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14 hours ago, stbugs said:

Whatever dude, feel free to read better next time. First of all, we still spent 3 picks on him. If we didn’t we would have had an extra 6th and 4th (2022). Also, we never regained the 2nd rounder next year so yes, we have lost something. Second, where did I complain about what we gave up? I mean if you are going to get all high and mighty you might want to again actually read well. I was just pointing out that you can’t just say Horn + Darnold = Fields without including the 3 picks that we gave up. Add the 3 picks and it’s a very valid comparison. I don’t care that we passed on Fields or traded for Darnold, I just wanted a Not Teddy with potential since we have weapons.

Please try to understand a post before you reply with another witty response that falls flat.

Not to even mention the potential 100M or more in salary that Darnold will make the next 5 years as opposed to a real rookie QB like Fields. Which makes exercising that 5th year option having no upside and all risk. Any comparison has to assume they play at a similar level. The initial trade was a little much but not too bad. But guaranteeing another 19M for no reason is. It’s Darnold/Horn - Fields/ Moton/Moore new deals. I’m having a hard time using basic math to make on any of that logical  financial sense. Maybe you will have better luck

 

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