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Rebuilding vs Winning Now

Mr. Scot

By Mr. Scot,
in Carolina Panthers

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KillaCamNewton Community Regular

KillaCamNewton

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Khaki Lackey said:

Yep. The only teams that go into “win now” mode are the ones that are virtually already playoff teams with aging super stars that go all in filling holes before the window closes. It doesn’t always work and can leave a dumpster fire in its wake.

Basically what happened in 2019

i dont buy the idea of rebuilds taking 5 years. The 49ers had 2 seasons in between being the worst team in football and having a 10 point lead in the 4th quarter of the Super Bowl. If you acquire blue chip talent in the draft and develop your young players you can put together a title contender pretty quickly

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Mol3m4n Mentor

Mol3m4n

Posted
Posted

Football and basketball is different, but my Lakers rebuild through 2016-2019 would have resulted in mediocrity for the foreseeable future. I really enjoyed the championship in 2020 from making trades with their young assets and pieces. I think the panthers are making a similar approach and I'm all for it. 

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onmyown Grand Master

onmyown

Posted
Posted (edited)

I think the schedule gives the Panthers a chance at playoffs. Not sure they would have one otherwise. The Panthers really struggle vs. solid teams.

But that defense is good enough to be in, however there is no way the oline will allow deep playoffs, the Dallas game is a good example of what would happen after the WC rounds.

Holes are getting fewer and fewer though, very bright future.

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Wes21 Mentor

Wes21

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Posted

Go ahead and make a push now.  Giving up multiple 1st round picks in a trade for a player isn't a good move...but short of that is fair game.  Some teams complain that their window was too short.  They complain it was "only" X number of years.  They don't realize how many other teams never see a "window."  They never get one or they only blindly take shots at one.

The window is open for us.  Whether its a slight breeze or something more is up to you.  But its open.  This is not the time for a 5 year plan.

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Sione Fua Collaborator

Sione Fua

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1 hour ago, Wes21 said:

Go ahead and make a push now.  Giving up multiple 1st round picks in a trade for a player isn't a good move...but short of that is fair game.  Some teams complain that their window was too short.  They complain it was "only" X number of years.  They don't realize how many other teams never see a "window."  They never get one or they only blindly take shots at one.

The window is open for us.  Whether its a slight breeze or something more is up to you.  But its open.  This is not the time for a 5 year plan.

Yup. It’s the NFL where players don’t typically play very long. We wasted Luke, TD, Greg, Cam, Pep, etc by having a loser mentality. Out of respect for CMC its time to make poo happen and win now! Let’s do this & *** whoever don’t believe in us!

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BrianS Veteran

BrianS

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11 hours ago, LinvilleGorge said:

I'm fine with moves like this. I mean, we traded a 6th round pick from two years from now. We didn't exactly hamstring ourselves. Hell, we might end up getting that pick back or possibly even upgrading that pick via a comp pick if we let him walk in FA.

This is EXACTLY how we should look at it.

We get him for a year, and our young CB's get to soak that in.  If we work out a team friendly deal, great.  We got a guy who in his prime was one of the best.  I suspect we'll see a decline now, given age.  Doesn't mean he can't contribute.

But worst case, he wants more than we are willing to pay, he walks.  We just flipped a 6th for a late 3rd.  Who doesn't love that?

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L-TownCat Grand Master

L-TownCat

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10 hours ago, outlaw4 said:

if we want playoffs this year, beating Brady at least once is all but a prerequisite. We can't do that, then this team isn't ready.

All the more reason to go get Gilmore.  A guy that saw Brady every day in practice.  Knows his tendencies.  Another brilliant move by Fitty.

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L-TownCat Grand Master

L-TownCat

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21 minutes ago, BrianS said:

But worst case, he wants more than we are willing to pay, he walks.  We just flipped a 6th for a late 3rd.  Who doesn't love that?

I think its a 5th but thats irrelevant.

It was asked in the offseason if Fitt would try to build a legion of boom here in Charlotte…

Horn, Gilmore, DJ, Henderson, Bouye, Taylor, Chinn??

I think we have the answer.

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Harbingers Grand Master

Harbingers

Posted
Posted
11 hours ago, LinvilleGorge said:

I'm fine with moves like this. I mean, we traded a 6th round pick from two years from now. We didn't exactly hamstring ourselves. Hell, we might end up getting that pick back or possibly even upgrading that pick via a comp pick if we let him walk in FA.

Seeing the way fitts did things this past draft I have no reason to believe he won’t do it again for the next few drafts. Though we do need some high picks for some OL so we might see him package forward instead. 

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Anybodyhome Grand Master

Anybodyhome

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So, what? The team acquires some DBs and all of a sudden this is a playoff team with high expectations? All the while ignoring the fact the QB is getting manhandled (sacked 11 times thru 4 games and 20 hits in the past 2 games).

Your starting QB left a team who got him pummeled and left him shell-shocked, came to a team with a lot of upside, but has done nothing to protect him. When this team decides they want to protect their QB, then I'll believe they can win 9 or 10 games this season and possibly make the playoffs.

Until then, I'll just hope Darnold makes it thru each offensive series without a major injury.

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NorthTryon Mentor

NorthTryon

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9 hours ago, KillaCamNewton said:

Basically what happened in 2019

i dont buy the idea of rebuilds taking 5 years. The 49ers had 2 seasons in between being the worst team in football and having a 10 point lead in the 4th quarter of the Super Bowl. If you acquire blue chip talent in the draft and develop your young players you can put together a title contender pretty quickly

It really don't when you come in with a few decent players from the previous regime. And Rivera/Hurney left about four really good pieces who are breaking out this year. Then add the competent and stellar moves made by Fitts, it doesn't have to be a five year project.

 

7 hours ago, Sione Fua said:

Yup. It’s the NFL where players don’t typically play very long. We wasted Luke, TD, Greg, Cam, Pep, etc by having a loser mentality. Out of respect for CMC its time to make poo happen and win now! Let’s do this & *** whoever don’t believe in us!

This is what I was trying to say in the Darnold thread the other day and was told I had a lottery ticket mentality. I suggested working toward having a competent, young, franchise player backup to Darnold for this very reason. I don't want to look up four or five years down the road and be Jacksonville having to let players walk and trading players like Chinn or Horn for picks. I even like you said loser mentality to not make every move at being competitive. 

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    • tukafan21
      With the first pick, don't draft a QB? Draft a DE? C'mon!

      By tukafan21 · Posted

      Oh good lord Interest doesn't mean interest in making a bad trade to take the player, that's why I had such a long post, to accurately describe why those are two different things, but you don't like to listen to that stuff.  Being interested in a player doesn't live in a vacuum. It's very simple... there isn't a #1 draft pick type of grade on any of these QB's, if there was, we'd just take them.  You can't bluff a pick everyone knows you won't make, and trying to trade the pick is the CLEAR signal that you're not taking the QB. Just because the Raiders would have interest, doesn't mean they're going to bail us out of a situation we don't want to be in, they'd be smart about it and just sit put, let us take a non QB as we'd be telling the world we're not taking one just by trying to trade the pick, and then they'd take him at #2 (either with their own pick or by trading less to get that one). Oh, and your point of "if nobody is willing to make the trade, you obviously just take the best QB" is quite literally the dumbest thing I've ever read on here. If nobody is willing to trade up to take the QB, then it's OBVIOUS that the QB isn't worth taking with that pick, so OBVIOUSLY taking the best QB there is just OBVIOUSLY stupid and a bad pick. The moral of it is if there is a QB worth taking, we're taking them and not making the trade.  If there isn't a QB worth taking there, nobody is trading up to #1 to take one, we just showed the NFL how bad of an idea that is 2 years ago, it's really not hard to see. You keep making up this mythical situation where there is a QB who has shown to be worth trading up to #1 for and we'll be able to leverage that into a trade.  But we're the most QB needy team in the league, if we end up with the #1 pick, either we are taking a QB #1 or no QB is going #1 unless we get VERY lucky and two teams in the Top 5 fall in love with one prospect and we can play them off each other and fleece one of them. But again, I can't see that happening, as if there was a QB worthy of that, we're just taking him ourselves.
    • CamWhoaaCam
      With the first pick, don't draft a QB? Draft a DE? C'mon!

      By CamWhoaaCam · Posted

      Sanders is with Tom Brady brand and that's his mentor. The Raiders owner was with Sanders taking pics at a Vegas game together.   It doesn't take much to connect the dots that Vegas will be interested in Sanders as their franchise QB. Oh yeah and guess who hasa small ownership stake in the Raiders Tom Brady.   I guess this is just another made up Madden idea by me huh?
    • CamWhoaaCam
      With the first pick, don't draft a QB? Draft a DE? C'mon!

      By CamWhoaaCam · Posted

      Bro I don't mind debating you, but did you really have to write all that to get your point across.   This isn't Madden. If you have the #1 pick you literally control your own destiny. If nobody wants to trade which I have a hard time believing they won't then you obviously take the best QB.   I think we will have suitors. If that's Madden then so be it.
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