Jump to content
  • Welcome!

    Register and log in easily with Twitter or Google accounts!

    Or simply create a new Huddle account. 

    Members receive fewer ads , access our dark theme, and the ability to join the discussion!

     

CJ Henderson


ncfan
 Share

Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, BrianS said:

You can't second guess against value like that, it's unfair.  At the time they made the trade, it wasn't pick 70.  It could have been pick 96!  At the time, the FO was talking playoffs - right or wrong.  They were thinking that pick was going to be mid 80's at best.

Well then that's just silly of them, in my opinion.  They talk about how building the team is a multi year process, but then go and do short sighted stuff to win now.  You could argue that CJ was a long term investment, but that view of the draft choices value is very "win now".  

I see a lot of sentiment about how draft picks are overrated, and the team with the most picks doesn't win the Super Bowl etc.  But the reality is we really needed those picks we gave away, and it was painfully obvious as the draft unfolded.  That reflects a poor evaluation of where the team is at and/or poor planning.

  • Beer 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

31 minutes ago, PNW_PantherMan said:

Well then that's just silly of them, in my opinion.  They talk about how building the team is a multi year process, but then go and do short sighted stuff to win now.  You could argue that CJ was a long term investment, but that view of the draft choices value is very "win now".  

I see a lot of sentiment about how draft picks are overrated, and the team with the most picks doesn't win the Super Bowl etc.  But the reality is we really needed those picks we gave away, and it was painfully obvious as the draft unfolded.  That reflects a poor evaluation of where the team is at and/or poor planning.

Another situation where if CJ flashes this year we either have to pick up his 5th year option already or extend him not knowing if his 2022 season was just a flash in the pan or not. Also will have to figure out Derrick Brown and Jeremy Chinn's deals at the same time. Would have rather taken one the LB's available in the 3rd this year and had them on cheap deals through 2026 if we were really looking at a proper build. Can't really go all in with these gamble trades in year 2 and pretend like you have some long term vision. 

  • Pie 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, stbugs said:

It was still a dumb trade to give up a high 3rd rounder if the plan was resigning Donte. Basically, we have a cheap CJ for two years (his 5th year will not be cheap as a top 10 pick) but we only have the slot CB spot open with Horn and Donte. Lots of good players at a lot of spots (LB, OL) we’re available at pick 70. Heck, we could have just kept our 2023 3rd and 2022 4th and taken Corral there.

It just sucks the lack of foresight our GM has had in these trades or pushback. We backed up the Brinks truck to enrich the Jets and Jags with great picks for guys who likely would have been way cheaper later. Somehow we thought they were great and had to have them only to sign another CB in Gilmore, resign Donte and draft a QB/try to trade for multiple QBs. CJ looks to be another wasted pick given his limited opportunities regardless if he becomes decent. 

I believe you will be eating fresh crow very soon about CJ. CB is one of those spots- "you can never have too many" Nickle is base- horn, CJ, and Djack thats a freaky group. Jc horn and Cj have the same 9.999994859 RAS score.

You did not included the jags 5th, which was the first pick in the 5th. If you do draft maths........ the points equal a 4th. Dan Arnold was part of the trade and hes not trash, but hes also at best a 25 snap per game player too.  

CJ henderson was the 9th overall pick in 2020 draft and all the panthers had to pay him was 6mill for 2.5 years(rough #s). Perfect risk to take, fully supported for me. Do the same trade right now 10/10. Just about every team had CJ as a top ten pick, jags and panthers were not alone. 

All CJ has to do is play at a 4th value range, that should be easy with Wilks around.

Not getting into the gilmore deal, you know that move was to prevent the bucs from winning the SB. At the time Horn went down and panthers were in the playoffs as well. No issue either. 

 

Edited by Basbear
  • Pie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, Basbear said:

I believe you will be eating fresh crow very soon about CJ. CB is one of those spots- "you can never have too many" Nickle is base- horn, CJ, and Djack thats a freaky group. Jc horn and Cj have the same 9.999994859 RAS score.

You did not included the jags 5th, which was the first pick in the 5th. If you do draft maths........ the points equal a 4th. Dan Arnold was part of the trade and hes not trash, but hes also at best a 25 snap per game player too.  

CJ henderson was the 9th overall pick in 2020 draft and all the panthers had to pay him was 6mill for 2.5 years(rough #s). Perfect risk to take, fully supported for me. Do the same trade right now 10/10. Just about every team had CJ as a top ten pick, jags and panthers were not alone. 

All CJ has to do is play at a 4th value range, that should be easy with Wilks around.

Not getting into the gilmore deal, you know that move was to prevent the bucs from winning the SB. At the time Horn went down and panthers were in the playoffs as well. No issue either. 

 

SMH, who the F cares where CJ was ranked pre-draft. His PFF rating was 50 last year. Also, we are spending more in cap because we also extended Thomas since we didn’t have a much cheaper Arnold, so you can’t ignore that either. Also, if you really think we traded for Gilmore to keep him off the Bucs, there’s no point to continue.

Also, your draft trade info is incorrect even if you don’t swap the 5th for Arnold. Pick 70 is 240 value and pick 144 is 31 value. That’s a 209 point difference which is pick 76, the 12th pick in the 3rd. Again, CJ is valued as pick 70 with Arnold thrown in, not a 4th.

Maybe I’ll eat crow but I’d much rather have had pick 70 to get a solid LB or OL or Corral (and still have the 2023 3rd and 2022 4th). Especially since CJ was likely not going to be on the Jaguars much longer.

  • Beer 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't hate the CJ trade, but it's emblematic of a big problem I have with Rhule: overconfidence in his ability to turn players careers around. Whether it's a retread QB, a player with injury history, his best buddy/someone he liked from college, etc, it feels like he's just so arrogant that he thinks he can overcome the strongest predictor of a player's future: Their career to date.  There are always exceptions, and I hope CJ is one, because if he can live up to some of his potential it will have been a great trade.

  • Beer 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 hours ago, therealmjl said:

Meh. He doesn’t really have the desire to be great.

There's been a lot of Pro Bowl caliber players over the years that don't have that. 

Will CJ be a HOF player? No likely not. 

But he could be an EXCELLENT #2 CB behind Jaycee for years to come which is worth it in the modern NFL

  • Pie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, SOJA said:

There's been a lot of Pro Bowl caliber players over the years that don't have that. 

Will CJ be a HOF player? No likely not. 

But he could be an EXCELLENT #2 CB behind Jaycee for years to come which is worth it in the modern NFL

I really have to disagree with the first part of that statement. You rarely accidentally become a Pro Bowler. It's definitely not common.

Players who lack desire to be great or general love for football don't typically enjoy very long or successful careers. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A team throwing in the towel on a top 10 draft pick after only one season is about as big as red flags get.

Second only to actually watching a guy suck out loud and being probably the worst starting QB in the NFL for three seasons.

I guess being accused by a sizable portion of the American female population of sexual misconduct deserves a mention as well.

  • Pie 1
  • Flames 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, LinvilleGorge said:

A team throwing in the towel on a top 10 draft pick after only one season is about as big as red flags get.

yep, the dude doesnt love football and was contemplating retirement and then we swooped in.  The observer article posted is just trying to sugarcoat things talking about how quiet he is etc.  Maybe he works out but the odds are not in his favor

  • Beer 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, mav1234 said:

I don't hate the CJ trade, but it's emblematic of a big problem I have with Rhule: overconfidence in his ability to turn players careers around. Whether it's a retread QB, a player with injury history, his best buddy/someone he liked from college, etc, it feels like he's just so arrogant that he thinks he can overcome the strongest predictor of a player's future: Their career to date.  There are always exceptions, and I hope CJ is one, because if he can live up to some of his potential it will have been a great trade.

Exactly and we aren’t paying pennies on the dollar for these retreads, guys like Teddy, Erving, Elflein, CJ and Darnold just in the past two years. Is there any other team that would have given up the $$$s we spent on them plus a 2nd, two 3rds (we lost a 3rd for Bradberry on Teddy) and a 4th? Not a chance, but we did.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, mav1234 said:

I don't hate the CJ trade, but it's emblematic of a big problem I have with Rhule: overconfidence in his ability to turn players careers around. Whether it's a retread QB, a player with injury history, his best buddy/someone he liked from college, etc, it feels like he's just so arrogant that he thinks he can overcome the strongest predictor of a player's future: Their career to date.  There are always exceptions, and I hope CJ is one, because if he can live up to some of his potential it will have been a great trade.

He was in Jax under Meyer. That situation was just awful. Not saying he gets a pass, but he gets a little grace. Rhule isn't the guy I trust to turn careers around, but maybe CJ really needed to get out of that cess pool in Jax. 

  • Pie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah I have zero expectations for CJ Henderson.  This guy has the talent to be a probowl corner, yet you can't even start over Donte Jackson?  Somebody else said it, Keith Taylor is the guy we should be watching for in development.  Nobody knows why CJ Henderson plays football, but it's clear he doesn't embrace it.  That's not a judgement on his quiet demeanor.  There are plenty of attention shy guys in the league who have done well and continue to do well.  It's just clear from past interviews football is not his passion.

  • Beer 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share


×
×
  • Create New...