Is A.R a smaller C.Newton in the rough?

[Mr. Scot]

Just now, AggieLean said:

No, but again, I understand why they are being compared. Outside of the physical appearances, the negatives being said about Cam were the same that’s being said about Malik and now AR. 

I don’t think Malik or AR compare, but I understand the threads. The poster you quoted even said AR was a worse Cam.

I get that. I just don't see nostalgia and scouting as a good mix.

Like I said before, just find the best player available right now who fits your system. Who they happen to remind you of doesn't really mean anything.

And hell, for the folks who do want to compare something, most of the guys they bring up would more closely compare to Michael Vick than Cam Newton.

Newton was a really unique type of player. Hoping to find another one like him is kind of like looking for the next Julius Peppers.

There's not going to be another Newton for a while.

[AggieLean]

3 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

I get that. I just don't see nostalgia and scouting as a good mix.

Like I said before, just find the best player available right now who fits your system. Who they happen to remind you of doesn't really mean anything.

And hell, for the folks who do want to compare something, most of the guys they bring up would more closely compare to Michael Vick than Cam Newton.

Newton was a really unique type of player. Hoping to find another one like him is kind of like looking for the next Julius Peppers.

There's not going to be another Newton for a while.

I agree with this. Cam was unique, a true dual threat. Saying AR is a worse Cam is off base 

These guys are more in the mold of Vick, but even as Vick aged, he became more of a true dual threat. Especially once he got under Andy Reid

Edited February 3, 2023 by AggieLean

[CRA]

1 minute ago, Mr. Scot said:

There's not going to be another Newton for a while.

Coaches largely don't let Cam Newton's happen.  They become DEs long before NFL draft time. 

 

[Mr. Scot]

3 minutes ago, CRA said:

Coaches largely don't let Cam Newton's happen.  They become DEs long before NFL draft time. 

I'd say that gets balanced out by the coaches that try to make somebody into another Cam Newton when they're really not.

True dual threats in general are way more rare than people think, especially at the college level.

A good number of the QBs who get lazily labeled "dual threats" are really just running quarterbacks who can kind of pass or passers who can sort of run (with the former being more common).

[AggieLean]

4 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

I'd say that gets balanced out by the coaches that try to make somebody into another Cam Newton when they're really not.

True dual threats in general are way more rare than people think, especially at the college level.

A good number of the QBs who get lazily labeled "dual threats" are really just running quarterbacks who can kind of pass or passers who can sort of run (with the former being more common).

Don’t agree, and if there is any truth to this, it’s recent. They’ve been doing what CRA said way longer than trying to turn somebody’s into Cam

[ThPantherFan]

21 hours ago, Mr. Scot said:

I really don't think people remember just how unique a specimen Cam Newton actually was.

Those highlights looked good.  BUT, was the defense, of those teams, 2nd par or was the offense a top shelf group?  Looking at highlights are in favor of whom ever it is highlighting.  I wouuld like to read a scouting report on him.

[GoobyPls]

17 hours ago, Sam the Cat said:

1 national championship to SEC flop?

I can also argue thay he is smaller, and less talented  Demarcus Russell.  Lol.

Huh??? Did you even read my previous post 

[PNW_PantherMan]

2 hours ago, AggieLean said:

I agree with this. Cam was unique, a true dual threat. Saying AR is a worse Cam is off base 

These guys are more in the mold of Vick, but even as Vick aged, he became more of a true dual threat. Especially once he got under Andy Reid

Vick peaked with the Eagles, but he just couldn't stay healthy.  It's a shame, because he was really a different player once he started trying (watching film etc).  It's still unbelievable to me that he was basically winging it in Atlanta.  He terrorized us.

[Basbear]

I believe AR was held back by his coaches. Very sad they didnt seem to have answers on improving him. And the supporting case, was very poor as well. 

Whereas Gus knew the perfect solutions for a Cam-lead team. Even after some time passed the carolina coaches paid a visit to Auburn and installed many of the plays into their system....Philly has done the same this year..... 

[CPantherKing]

7 hours ago, ForJimmy said:

You just said you would take Richardson on another thread…

You keep believing that and continue to gaslight everyone.

6 hours ago, mrcompletely11 said:

what if I told you the best qb from the last class had a 58% completion in college?

That is always a possibility. There is a big difference between a 54% passer and a 58% passer in football.

Comp% for a college QB? I'd want to see them trending up. Posting 60% to 70% in at least 2 seasons with an upward trend is going to be a green light regardless of average. If that 58% average is potential and they transfer that to the NFL, it would put them in the 84th to 92nd percentile of NFL QB decision makers. Stafford, Brady, and Wilson are the last 3 SB champion QBs who have been in this range.

I'd be looking for a coachable QB with improved decision making and the ability to make their receivers and the coaching staff better. They would have a pattern from low to high of 45 - 55 - 60 - 62 - 64 - 65. So, 58 is average. Trending up is potential. And I would expect that QB to level off around 63-65% in the NFL. If they are coming from a vertical system while trailing in a high % of games, they would get an even bigger bump in potential. If they are in a horizontal system with high percentage routes and playing with leads, they would be given a neutral to declining status. You want QBs with potential and little to no volatility coming out of college.

Richardson is a highly volatile and limited passer that would be some where in the 56 to 58 range at the NFL level. I'd expect him to remain at the bottom of the NFL if he were to be a starter. I'd expect Richardson to fall in the 30th to 49th percentile on the NFL level. Dilfer, Elway and Rypien were the last 3 SB champion QBs in this range.

You can win a SB with any NFL QB when it comes to decision making (Doug Williams, Joe Namath, Jim Plunkett, and Terry Bradshaw among the worst in the NFL - 8 SBs among them). This is just decision making. There are other factors that layer over decision making, one of the most important being the clutch factor, and RIchardson is below my cutoff for that too at 23.5% GWD.

Give me a 58% COMP with 35% GWD QB from college in a 65%+ vertical passing game with at least one championship. I'll look into their leadership/personality and then possibly put them on my board. Anthony Richardson does not make the cut.

There is more to it, but COMP layered with GWD will filter out many of the college QBs that will not win a championship at the NFL level - even with the best coaches in the NFL.

[ForJimmy]

7 minutes ago, CPantherKing said:

You keep believing that and continue to gaslight everyone.

That is always a possibility. There is a big difference between a 54% passer and a 58% passer in football.

Comp% for a college QB? I'd want to see them trending up. Posting 60% to 70% in at least 2 seasons with an upward trend is going to be a green light regardless of average. If that 58% average is potential and they transfer that to the NFL, it would put them in the 84th to 92nd percentile of NFL QB decision makers. Stafford, Brady, and Wilson are the last 3 SB champion QBs who have been in this range.

I'd be looking for a coachable QB with improved decision making and the ability to make their receivers and the coaching staff better. They would have a pattern from low to high of 45 - 55 - 60 - 62 - 64 - 65. So, 58 is average. Trending up is potential. And I would expect that QB to level off around 63-65% in the NFL. If they are coming from a vertical system while trailing in a high % of games, they would get an even bigger bump in potential. If they are in a horizontal system with high percentage routes and playing with leads, they would be given a neutral to declining status. You want QBs with potential and little to no volatility coming out of college.

Richardson is a highly volatile and limited passer that would be some where in the 56 to 58 range at the NFL level. I'd expect him to remain at the bottom of the NFL if he were to be a starter. I'd expect Richardson to fall in the 30th to 49th percentile on the NFL level. Dilfer, Elway and Rypien were the last 3 SB champion QBs in this range.

You can win a SB with any NFL QB when it comes to decision making (Doug Williams, Joe Namath, Jim Plunkett, and Terry Bradshaw among the worst in the NFL - 8 SBs among them). This is just decision making. There are other factors that layer over decision making, one of the most important being the clutch factor, and RIchardson is below my cutoff for that too at 23.5% GWD.

Give me a 58% COMP with 35% GWD QB from college in a 65%+ vertical passing game with at least one championship. I'll look into their leadership/personality and then possibly put them on my board. Anthony Richardson does not make the cut.

There is more to it, but COMP layered with GWD will filter out many of the college QBs that will not win a championship at the NFL level - even with the best coaches in the NFL.

My fault.  I had you confused with @CPcavedweller.  You two just remind me of each other with your nonsense babbling about nothing. Carry on....

 

[micnificent28]

I think he is in a unique sphere. He isnt Cam Newton as far as being a Power Rusher but he is faster than Cam. I really dont know who you compare him 2 because He is pretty big and we haven't seen a guy this big this fast really. Hes more likely to house call than newton.

They are both power throwers who depend on arm strength to get it done over ball placement and accuracy. So i guess the comparison can be made. That said If I'm stay at 9 I gamble on the Upside. Has the phsyical tools let coaching handle the rest. He immediately comes into the league a top 5 rushing threat at the position schemd around that to get guys open. build up the pieces as we go and lets go.

[Mr. Scot]

4 hours ago, AggieLean said:

Don’t agree, and if there is any truth to this, it’s recent. They’ve been doing what CRA said way longer than trying to turn somebody’s into Cam

The college game is very different from the pro game these days.

A quarterback who can run is way more effective at that level, even if their passing is only mediocre.

[WOW!!]