Kaye's X-Factor: System Fit

[pantherclaw]

Another heated thread that turns more into child care than an actual football conversation.  

Congratulations guys. 

 

Edited April 3, 2023 by pantherclaw

[Ivory Panther]

1 hour ago, frankw said:

My guy you've got about half a dozen troll pro Bryce threads disguised as an attempt at legit discourse. Nobody has made as many about either prospect. Even the mods see what's going on.

If I knew there was a quota on numbers of thread or post, I would have made less. lol.

Sometimes ur issue is well, "you created too many threads abt Bryce", sometimes it is "you are a fanboy" sometimes it is...I can't even keep up.

Bottom line is Y'all got zero valid argument as to why y'all chose to be nasty rather than just give your opinions or not... 

The real issue is y'all are too emotionally against Bryce but you are afraid to admit it. So you try the passive aggressive stuff with no success... 

[Gerry Green]

3 minutes ago, Ivory Panther said:

If I knew there was a quota on numbers of thread or post, I would have made less. lol.

Sometimes ur issue is well, "you created too many threads abt Bryce", sometimes it is "you are a fanboy" sometimes it is...I can't even keep up.

Bottom line is Y'all got zero valid argument as to why y'all chose to be nasty rather than just give your opinions or not... 

The real issue is y'all are too emotionally against Bryce but you are afraid to admit it. So you try the passive aggressive stuff with no success... 

 

The irony is strong with this one.

[CashNewton22]

You take the best quarterback and make it work around him. You don’t trade the farm to get a system quarterback what if Reich is fired in 2 years??? With all the talent we have in the coaching rooms you don’t take a qb that fits a system at 1…you take the best qb and make your system fit him. 

[Jackie Lee]

 

[Cary Kollins]

Young is the pick and any other talk is nonsense.

[Cary Kollins]

Young is the pick and any other talk is no

[top dawg]

2 hours ago, Gerry Green said:

 

And the Young fan boys cannot admit that his slight frame is a very big concern. Your turn.

I have already talked about his frame. 

I completely understand if someone thinks he's too small. All I can tell you is that he played well against defenses in college, including at least one historic squad, and size was never an issue, nor were injury concerns. If you weigh his size discrepancy with other QBs versus his outstanding skill and decide it's not a risk worth taking, I fully understand that and respect that opinion. If I think that it is worth the risk, then it would be nice if you would fully understand and respect that opinion as well. I don't think that that's so difficult. 

BTW, I'm a fan of both Young and Stroud (and "fanboy" of neither), and I can see where they're both worth the risk.That being said, I think that it's not really arguable that Young was the better QB during their collegiate careers. 

 

Edited April 3, 2023 by top dawg

[poundaway]

2 hours ago, top dawg said:

I couldn't agree more. 

My only other issue is that some people seem to be just saying that Stroud would be a better fit, but they really don't produce any real, analytically-vetted evidence that he would be a better fit. Their evidence seems more anecdotal than anything: "Stroud fits the system because he's a bigger, more accurate passer,” without acknowledging that he really isn't that much more accurate than Young who is decidedly more improvisational and apt to throw off-platform.

I thought this thread was about sheme-fit over talent.

So I asked what element of  Riech's scheme requires a taller QB.

Still waiting.

This notion that Reich wants the taller QB because he has had taller QB's in the past is just conjecture.  Reich himself has said as much.

[Mr. Scot]

1 hour ago, CashNewton22 said:

You take the best quarterback and make it work around him. You don’t trade the farm to get a system quarterback what if Reich is fired in 2 years??? With all the talent we have in the coaching rooms you don’t take a qb that fits a system at 1…you take the best qb and make your system fit him. 

To be clear, the guys making the pick aren't really going to be all that concerned with what happens to the team if they're fired.

(and why should they be?)

They're going to be making the pick that they feel is best for them. And realistically, that's what they should do.

As far as ability, if they don't feel like there's a huge difference in that, why not take the guy they have to make fewer adjustments for?

Edited April 3, 2023 by Mr. Scot

[Gerry Green]

There has been 100s of College QBs that could run around and make plays. How many NFL QBs are like that? There are precious few. (And even fewer with a long career) Although, that number is growing, slowly.

 

There have been 100s of College QBs that could play well from the pocket. And there are a whole bunch of NFL QBs that still play that way. Although mobility is slowly creeping into the QB skillset. 

 

We didn't trade to #1 to buck the trend. 

[Byrdman4real]

6 hours ago, Ivory Panther said:

Like people are actually suggesting we should take the LESSER TALENT (by their own assessment). 

What kind of None sense is that??? bahahahahaha. Like seriously, you gotta be the ULTIMATE POVERTY fan to suggest your team needs to pick the lesser talent because he fits the system of a coach who may be gone in 3 years. Like what is this place?? seriously.

If we draft CJ because we think he is the better player, I'M 100% DOWN WITH THAT. I respect that!

But if we draft him thinking he is the lesser talent but he fits "some system", that will be an org failure!

This

[Martin]

3 hours ago, top dawg said:

I couldn't agree more. 

My only other issue is that some people seem to be just saying that Stroud would be a better fit, but they really don't produce any real, analytically-vetted evidence that he would be a better fit. Their evidence seems more anecdotal than anything: "Stroud fits the system because he's a bigger, more accurate passer,” without acknowledging that he really isn't that much more accurate than Young who is decidedly more improvisational and apt to throw off-platform.

I have to disagree. Stroud is considered the best passer by almost everyone in terms of accuracy, ball placement, effortless arm strength (vs. Young) etc. Most people think that is what Reich values the most, hence best fit.

[frankw]

There are nitpick cons for both. But If Young's passing abilities are well above reproach why was he the only QB that skipped the combine? Then he wasn't particularly good throwing long at the Alabama pro day. Much is being said about his improvisation ability but holding onto the ball in the NFL isn't going to do him any favors. If he's going to do well for us it's going to be by getting the ball out quickly. And others have noted him having to put his whole body into some of those longer throws. Defensive coordinators are going to be putting his arm to the test from the jump

The biggest knock on CJ is how he responds to pressure. But I've seen that moved into him being afraid of being hit which I really don't know where that comes from I haven't heard that until recently.

Just for the sake of clarity BY had a 65.8 completion % while Stroud sits at 69.3. That's not a striking gap but no doubt Stroud is the more accurate passer and the case can be made he has the better arm.

Moving beyond that as I've mentioned in another thread Reich is well known as a coach who likes to try and convert those third and short situations with QB sneaks. That doesn't fit Young.

All we have left are whispers of sources and both Reich and Fitterer have offered little other than smoke and mirrors. Need proof? Reich also recently raved about Richardson and acknowledged he is certainly in the conversation for the #1 pick. Either they really are still in the thick of deciding which is their QB1 or they are just taking us along for a ride. No one can really claim either prospect is far and away the favorite at this point.