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PFF Grades From Lions v Panthers Preseason Week 3


Mr Mojo Risin
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Oh yeah after that first drive Ickey absolurely cleaned it up after that first drive. Super releiving to see and hopefully he's got the yips out with the snaps last night.

How did C.J. become a top 10 pick? I never expected him to live up to the potential but gah damn at least play close to the 3rd round value. All the talent just seems so apathetic and lethargic, I can't imagine he interviewed well. 

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3 minutes ago, Mr Mojo Risin said:

https://sports.yahoo.com/best-worst-pff-grades-panthers-180515424.html

Top 5 Offense:

1. TE Giovanni Ricci: 84.0
2. G Brady Christensen: 78.8
3. OT Ikem Ekwonu: 76.6
4. QB Bryce Young: 75.4
5. C Sam Tecklenburg: 72.1

Bottom 5 Offense

27. QB Matt Corral: 48.6
28. G Michael Jordan: 46.4
29. QB Andy Dalton: 44.4
30. TE Ian Thomas: 41.2
31. RB Camerun Peoples: 27.9

Top 5 Defense

1. ILB Deion Jones: 77.9
2. CB Herb Miller: 77.1
3. ILB Brandon Smith: 74.4
4. OLB Yetur Gross-Matos: 73.9
5. CB Jaycee Horn: 71.5

Bottom 5 Defense

25. DT Shy Tuttle: 47.3
26. ILB Bumper Pool: 45.6
27. OLB Eku Leota: 39.6
28. CB CJ Henderson: 28.3
29. ILB Kamu Grugier-Hill: 27.4

Some personal notes:

- Icky played a lot better than people wanted to give him credit for because he gave up another sack. He's definitely had an up and down preseason (mostly down) but I think the worries are a bit overblown and exaggerated. Let's wait until the regular season before we start declaring our young LT a bust and in need of a position change.

- No surprise to see both back up QBs on the bottom 5 in offense. Both struggled although I did like what I saw from Dalton. Don't believe we'll be keeping Corral on the 53 but can see him wind up on the PS.

- Good to see our back up LBs in Deion Jones and Brandon Smith play well. Hopefully both make the team but I think only one of these players will make it. Despite Grugier-Hill having a pretty rough game I think he and Deion Jones make it as the back ups.

- No surprise in seeing CJ Henderson score so low again. I'd wager he has the most bottom 5 finishes out of all of our defensive players. I can't wait until we can finally replace him with someone that can actually cover and doesn't panic when the ball is in the air. However, it is season 1 under Reich and Co. and upgrading/replacing every single position in one offseason is borderline impossible to do. Gotta roll with what we got.

Onto the Regular Season!!!!

I don't really get why people like what they saw from Dalton. He was terrible. He threw a hospital ball that could've gotten Shi killed. He threw a short pass to Thomas before Ian could get his head around. He threw a short pass to Thomas well behind the line in a ton of traffic that he should've thrown into the ground. And the worst thing that he did was basically telegraph an INT by making an awful decision. He did Andy Dalton things, similar to what he's done the past few years and why he has become a bounced-around journeyman. He's too experienced to be playing this sub par.

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6 minutes ago, top dawg said:

I don't really get why people like what they saw from Dalton. He was terrible. He threw a hospital ball that could've gotten Shi killed. He threw a short pass to Thomas before Ian could get his head around. He threw a short pass to Thomas well behind the line in a ton of traffic that he should've thrown into the ground. And the worst thing that he did was basically telegraph an INT by making an awful decision. He did Andy Dalton things, similar to what he's done the past few years and why he has become a bounced-around journeyman. He's too experienced to be playing this sub par.

It wasn't perfect by any means but he did drive the offense down the field into the redzone and while the INT wasn't good I feel like the defender just made a great play on the ball. He was lined up in man and was able to look into the back field at the top of the route and make the play. The play before that Dalton threw a really nice pass to Ian Thomas (who is so incredibly bad at catching the ball) a better TE probably catches that for a TD. It was also Daltons first action of the preseason so seeing him get a solid drive in is mostly what I was referring too. If he completes one of those balls for a TD we probably aren't having this conversation

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18 minutes ago, Mr Mojo Risin said:

It wasn't perfect by any means but he did drive the offense down the field into the redzone and while the INT wasn't good I feel like the defender just made a great play on the ball. He was lined up in man and was able to look into the back field at the top of the route and make the play. The play before that Dalton threw a really nice pass to Ian Thomas (who is so incredibly bad at catching the ball) a better TE probably catches that for a TD. It was also Daltons first action of the preseason so seeing him get a solid drive in is mostly what I was referring too. If he completes one of those balls for a TD we probably aren't having this conversation

My thoughts as well. He played like a backup QB. That's what he's here for. I trust him to win me 1 out of two games if the starter goes down. He's a known commodity and we brought him in more for what he can do to support Bryce, not start for us.

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1 minute ago, Ricky Spanish said:

My thoughts as well. He played like a backup QB. That's what he's here for. I trust him to win me 1 out of two games if the starter goes down. He's a known commodity and we brought him in more for what he can do to support Bryce, not start for us.

Exactly reminds me a lot of what DA was for us. Not a world better by any means but solid enough to win a game or two in a pinch if we need him. If he's asked to play multiple games in a row then yea we're probably screwed.

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1 hour ago, Luciu5 said:

I feel for Matt Corral. I feel he did well in the pocket, good decision making, good scramble ability, but his accuracy is so goddamn awful. If he could just put the ball in the same zip code as his receivers he wouldn't be a bad qb.

Kind of an important trait for an NFL QB 

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3 hours ago, Luciu5 said:

I feel for Matt Corral. I feel he did well in the pocket, good decision making, good scramble ability, but his accuracy is so goddamn awful. If he could just put the ball in the same zip code as his receivers he wouldn't be a bad qb.

I get what you are saying but we must be careful not to exaggerate things. Also we don’t know the full picture.
 

Outside of one throw that looked 2-3 yards behind the receiver, most of his incompletions were passes that hit the receivers hands, but in a poor location, forcing the receiver to adjust their body. Bad day? Lacked chemistry with receivers? Probably both to some degree. 

 

And the prior two games he completed 68%. Now completion percentage is a Teddy Bridgewater stat, and doesn’t mean much to me, but it is indicative of a QB who, indeed IS putting the ball in “the same zip code as his receivers.”

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    • The referee assigned to this game is Shawn Smith. This is a critical data point for betting purposes because his crew has one of the most distinct, long-term statistical biases in the NFL. "Road Team" Bias: Historically, Shawn Smith is known as the "Road Team Referee." In a league where home teams usually win ~55% of the time, home teams in Smith's games have historically won at a rate far below league average (often hovering around 40-42%). Against The Spread (ATS): The trend is even starker here. Home teams have covered the spread at a rate of roughly 37-40% in his career. The Mechanism: Analysis shows his crew tends to call a higher rate of False Start and Unnecessary Roughness penalties on the Home Team. This negates the traditional home-field advantage (crowd noise causing false starts for the visitors). Impact on This Game: This specific assignment heavily favors the Buccaneers (Road Team). If you believe the referee influences the game, Smith's presence suggests the Panthers will struggle to get "home cooking" calls and may face untimely procedural flags that stall drives. The Panthers have only had Shawn Smith officiate four home games since he became a head referee in 2018, and they are all losses. Date Opponent Result Score Nov 24, 2024 vs. Kansas City Chiefs Loss 27–30 Oct 9, 2022 vs. San Francisco 49ers Loss 15–37 Dec 12, 2021 vs. Atlanta Falcons Loss 21–29 Nov 25, 2018 vs. Seattle Seahawks Loss 27–30   Considering the how rare it is for Shawn Smith to officiate a Panthers game at all, this seems like an odd time to assign him to a Panthers game, unless the NFL wants to kill the Panthers season once and for all.  The Panthers' offensive line situation creates a "perfect storm" for referee Shawn Smith's specific tendency to call False Starts on the home team. The "Carousel" Factor (Communication Vulnerability) The most damning stat for the Panthers' offensive line in 2025 is their lack of continuity. The Stat: By Week 13, the Panthers had already fielded their 10th different offensive line combination. The Impact: False starts are often "communication penalties"—they happen when a guard doesn't hear the center's snap count or a tackle anticipates the wrong cadence. A unit that hasn't played together struggles with non-verbal communication. The Shawn Smith Multiplier: Shawn Smith’s crew calls False Starts at a high rate on home teams. He will likely look for flinches on the exterior of the line. A disjointed line that is constantly rotating players (due to the injuries of starters like Cade Mays and the illness issues with Robert Hunt earlier this season) is "fresh meat" for this specific referee bias. The Specific Culprits (2025 Penalties) Ikem Ekwonu (LT): Leads the team with 4 False Start penalties this season. He is the most frequent violator on the line. Taylor Moton (RT): Has been flagged for 3 False Starts. The Trap: Smith’s crew often focuses on the tackles (the players furthest from the ball) jumping early to get an edge on speed rushers. Since Ekwonu struggles with this discipline naturally, having a referee who hunts for it is a massive disadvantage. The "Managed Outcome" Synthesis The "Bucs Cover" Script: If the desired outcome is a Buccaneers win to solidify their playoff standing, the officials simply have to apply the letter of the law. Calling strict False Starts on a confused, banged-up Panthers O-line will consistently put them in "3rd and Long" situations, killing their drives and allowing the Bucs (-3.5) to cover easily. The "Close Game" Script: If the desired outcome is "Week 18 Drama" (keeping the division tied), look for the officials to ignore the Panthers' twitchy tackles. If Ekwonu jumps a split-second early and no flag is thrown, it effectively neutralizes the Bucs' pass rush, allowing the Panthers to keep the score close. Summary of the Edge Vulnerability: Extreme. The Panthers are playing backup interior linemen (like Jake Curhan or practice squad call-ups) next to jumpy tackles. Betting Implication: This strongly reinforces the Bucs -3 or -3.5 play. The combination of a "Road Team Referee" and a "Home Team O-Line in chaos" suggests the Panthers will beat themselves with procedural penalties. Based on the collision of the hard data (Referee bias + Offensive Line injuries) and the soft narratives ("Managed Outcomes"), here is the definitive recommendation. If you have to place a single Moneyline bet to win this game straight up: The Pick: Tampa Bay Buccaneers (-165) While the "Entertainment Script" hints at a Panthers upset to keep the division messy, the structural disadvantage the Panthers face in this specific matchup is too massive to ignore. Here is why the Buccaneers are the stong moneyline play: 1. The "Shawn Smith" Road-Field Advantage This is the decisive factor. In the NFL, Home Field Advantage usually accounts for about 1.5 to 2 points of value. The Reality: Referee Shawn Smith negates that advantage entirely. His crew calls penalties in a way that historically suppresses home crowd momentum (False Starts, holding). The Result: You are essentially getting the Buccaneers on a neutral field (or even a "pseudo-home" field) against a team with a worse roster. 2. The "Drive-Killer" Synergy To win as an underdog, the Panthers need to play a clean, mistake-free game to keep drives alive. The combination of Panthers' 10th O-Line combo + Jump-prone Tackles (Ekwonu) + A Referee who hunts False Starts is a recipe for disaster. The Scenario: Expect the Panthers to face multiple "1st and 15" or "3rd and 12" situations due to procedural flags. These drive-killers will force them to punt or settle for field goals, while the Bucs' offense (led by Mayfield) stays on schedule. 3. The "TV Product" Counter-Argument You asked about the "Managed Outcome." While a Panthers win creates "chaos," the NFL also values Star Power in the playoffs. Baker Mayfield and the Buccaneers are a proven national TV draw with recent playoff history. If the league has to choose between "Chaos" (Panthers) and "Ratings/Legitimacy" (Bucs), the "Script" likely leans toward ensuring the Buccaneers—the more marketable team—secure the division lead. They won't "fix" the game against the Panthers, but they won't intervene to save them from their own penalties. Final Verdict Betting on the Panthers requires you to hope for a miracle 4th-quarter collapse. Betting on the Buccaneers requires you to trust that a superior roster—aided by a favorable officiating crew—will control the game for the first 45 minutes. Take the Buccaneers Moneyline. The "Safe" money is on the Ref. The Prediction: Tampa Bay Buccaneers Win and Cover Projected Score: Buccaneers 27, Panthers 17 The Bet: Buccaneers -3 (or Moneyline -165) Confidence Level: High on the Winner; Moderate on the Spread (due to potential "garbage time" variance).
    • He isn't a good HC. I think he has proved that conclusively.
    • The missed tackle percentage is on that screen cap.
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