All 22 Review: Panthers vs Viking [Week 4 2023]

[Varking]

20 minutes ago, ChuckWag78 said:

I love seeing CJ have some success. I don't know why, but I am rooting for this kid so much. 

He’s a good kid he just doesn’t want attention

[*FreeFua*]

Shy Tuttle struggling what a shock 

Guy wasn’t even good in New Orleans and we grossly overpaid for him. Easily one of the dumbest/confusing contracts handed out all offseason 

[thennek]

So game one when Brady was playing…..was the o-line better? That could help figure if it is scheme or personnel.

Also I wonder if Zavala is better at RG vs LG? He is a rookie and already playing in his second position. Maybe moving him around messed his development. 

 

Edited October 4, 2023 by thennek

[DamnItJake!]

2 hours ago, TheCasillas said:

Hey everyone, here is this week's A22 review. I broke it out into defense then offense then video reviews. I attempted to include everyone's request. If I missed your request feel free to ask me here and I can provide some insight and maybe chop up a quick video.

 

I also attempted to make this mobile friendly with links - let me know if you prefer this format.

 

Defense Quick Hits

 

• Run defense looked to be mainly playing the pass on Sunday and this led to a lot of rushing opportunities for Minnesota

• We ran a cover 3 defense out of 2-4-5 and this impacted our ability to play the run

• Chinn played spell for Grugier-Hill, and was at the line of scrimmage a lot of plays. Chinn had an excellent day and I think I am finally figuring out what Evero’s plan is with Chinn

• Luvu out of position on a couple of runs early in the game and this gave up some big yardage on some rushes

• Our run defense is lacking a big bruising linebacker. Vikings had open holes primarily because we didn’t have that second level body to fill it. I would like to see a big linebacker on this roster next year

• YGM was the reason the deep ball fell short for Cousins on the DPI play… straight bull rush into Cousins. YGM had an awesome disruption on a Mattison redzone touch. Potential TD without YGM. He had a very very good game. If YGM continues at the pace he is at, he can shake that 2nd round bust tag easily.

• Troy Hill is aggressive to the spot and doesn’t give up on plays – love his motor

• Hats off to Franklin on his pick 6.. That was 100% execution of Evero’s scheme. Kirk doesn't throw that ball if Franklin doesn’t engage his man the way he did

• DJ Johnson was responsible for a run stop in the first quarter. He pushed his man into the hole and led to a run for no gain. DJ is in our run stop package with YGM during this game.  DJ Johnson looks like he is a strong mother fugger. I expect him to active in games to come 

• I have counted a couple of plays where CJ was in JJ’s hip pocket. The routes were mainly out routes and stop routes.

• When the Vikings ran a 2 TE set .. Chinn was on the sideline

• Shy Tuttle is really struggling in our defense

 

Offense Quick Hits

 

• We are struggling to find a TE (outside of Hurst) on this roster to execute all ends of this offense. We tried Ricci early and his run blocking was bad.

 

• As the game began to progress the Vikings put more and more players on Thielen. There was one play where they had two corners and two safeties on Thielen. TMJ got a 30 yard gain that was called back for holding by Bozeman.

 

• The delay of the game that was called in the game appeared to be some communication issues between Bozeman. Bozeman was saying something to Bryce as Bryce was saying something to Hubbard, and then Bryce went up to Bozeman to check and then by the time the ball was snapped the clock hit 0.

 

• The Vikings ran the same play twice on a single drive against us. It was a screenplay to the tight end. The first one was called back on a hold and then 3 plays later they called the exact same play and it went for a big gain. 

 

• Justin Jefferson’s ability to stop on a dime is just unreal. There are multiple plays where he just instantly stops and turns. He did not receive the ball on all of them, but if Cousins saw him… he would have been good for another 2-3 catches.

 

• Our run blocking is just outright bad right now. There is no sugar coating this. Zavala struggles to get to the second level, and there just isn’t any chemistry along the line. The timing is just off. There is no other way of putting this… the offensive line is just not winning. No push at all across the line. 

 

• It is time to bench Zavala and let him grow by watching

• Thorckmorton was on and off, better pass blocker than run blocker by far.

• Laviska is a gadget player, and the  team needs to embrace this. He is our 4th reciever and saw run in the 2nd half but his routes were more decoy and short than anything else. 

 

Video Highlights

 

• In the first quarter Bryce’s first pass went for over 15+ yards.. He finds Thielen on a medium post route. This is a great read and anticipation play by Bryce. It does appear to be a designed play to go to AT as a primary read and then TMJ as the second. This is a solid play design. [VIDEO]

 

• The dropped TD pass by Ian was brutal. It’s the right read for Bryce, and you can’t put that ball in any better of a position. We truly need to get Stephen Sullivan back if we want to see some of these plays land successfully [VIDEO]

 

• Absolutely insane throw by Bryce Young that he won't get credit for because Chark did not come up with it. However, this throw hits Chark right in the face mask. The elements of this throw are the reasons why everyone and anyone should be excited about Bryce. [VIDEO][VIDEO2]

  • Busy Pocket

  • Off Platform

  • Ultra Quick Release

  • DOT

 

• For the Vikings first TD falls on D’shawn Jamison. His PFF grade was bad because both TDs were his fault. In this video you will notice that he is caught in no man’s land while Franklin is expecting him to fill the middle to take away the easy pitch and catch for cousins and jefferson. This sucks because it was a third down. [VIDEO]

 

• I will all be the judge, but from this angle it does not appear that the ball was as much as a hospital ball as we thought for Thielen when he was injured. It appears that Bryce was expecting Thielen to settle in the zone. If you notice in this video Thielen begins to slow down and appears that he is settling, but I think his momentum carries him forward and the ball is behind him. That being said, if this isn't the case then it is a behind throw by Bryce. [VIDEO]

 

• Sack on Cousins was really solid by YGM. He just kept his motor going and chased down Cousins. The other piece to note here is that this was a coverage sack and a solid job by CJ staying with Jefferson. [VIDEO]

 

• Awesome coverage by both CJ and Chinn. They both shutdown their intended target on this play. Great work. [VIDEO]

 

• This is a play that many love to see Bryce do. I think he does a great job here finding an opportunity to create extra time and hit Thielen…. However, I really would have liked to see Bryce step up here instead of breaking the pocket and wait for the deep route to DJ Chark develop. This is very nitpick, and this is a great overall play. I am just curious about the possibility of going to DJ. We did not call many deep plays, but this is one of them. I would also like to see the o-line block for just one deep shot. [VIDEO]

 

• Here is the deep ball that Bryce threw to DJ that came up short. An interesting piece here that was not taken into consideration when we were watching the game is the fact that Bryce is hit here when throwing the deep ball which obviously took off some power behind his throw. Bryce is unable to finish his full throwing motion, this led to a wobbler that we all thought Bryce just weak armed it.. [VIDEO]

 

• This is a great play design to set up a Laviska screen. We overload the left side of the line to get the Vikings defense to favor that side. We then bring Tremble in motion to set up a lead block to set up a solid gain. This is the kind of stuff that deserves some praise in our playbook. [VIDEO]

 

• I am going to let you all be the judge here… but the flag on Ickey for ineligible receiver is debatable. I have slowed down the video for you to make a call. Typically the rule states that an ineligible receiver is someone that is 1-2 yards past the LOS that is not blocking another player. Ickey is not only blocking someone, he is also at the 2.5 yard mark at the time of release from BY. The thing that gets me here is how late the ref throws the flag, as if he didnt see it until it was too late. You tell me. [VIDEO] 

 

• Starting to see a theme here with our deep shots…. Sacks. This is the fumble play by Bryce. Looks like this play was a deep shot to Chark on the right side, but it just never developed. We had both DJ Chark and Marsette going big on this play. We just can’t line these calls up with our protection. Very Frustrating. [VIDEO]

 

• Another play where we call a deep shot but this time to Thielen. Our oline just can’t hold the pocket long enough for the QB to do anything with it. Zavala gets absolutely destroyed on this play. [VIDEO]

 

• Another sack on Bryce. There is just nowhere to go with the ball… a throwaway would be nice, but I just can’t see how he does it with the time and the routes on the field that does not turn into an intentional grounding. Zavala again being bounced around at the LOS  [VIDEO]

 

• This is the stuff that won’t get the appreciation it deserves and most coaches are excited when they see their rookie protect the football and not try to force it. This is one of those small things, like Bryce -  lol. Here you will notice that he looks at every option on the field before finding his dump down. Every single option is covered here, but Bryce does not try to force… even though he knows we are down 8 with less than 5 minutes to go in the game. [VIDEO]

 

• No one open, and Bryce gets the first down with his feet while the pocket crumbles around him. [VIDEO]

 

• Great pocket navigation by Bryce to move around and keep the playing going. Finds DJ Chark on a deep mid route who settles in the zone. I personally think the ball is where it needs to be and Chark should have settled sooner in the soft spot of the zone, but the other argument can be made that this ball is behind him. Your call. Solid gain. [VIDEO]

 

• Another solid zone ball by Bryce and throwing to a spot where he does not get his receiver killed. Great read on the zone play and hits TMJ in the soft spot of the zone. [VIDEO]

 

• I have no idea if Hubbard was told to support Zavala on this or if it was just a blown blitz pickup…  but it cost us a touchdown. This play concept was perfect for the moment as the intended target was Adam Thielen. The design is for Ian to run a short out route to keep the corner down and Thielen to run a deep slant and get open in the back of the endzone. However, due to the blocking assignments… Bryce is sacked in less than 1.8s and we are unable to take advantage. This really bums me out, because I truly think Hubbard was asked to help Zavala here. Chuba immediately goes to Zavala’s left hip, if Zaval was able to hold his own, I believe Chuba blocks Smith and this is a TD to Thielen. [VIDEO] 

 

Overall, I am coming away more frustrated with our offensive line more than anything else. It’s hard to blame our skill players because they are not getting opportunities in this offense due to the inability of our oline to show any resemblance of a functional product. I really think this is a Campen issue. Other teams in the NFL are experiencing similar issues but are not struggling as badly as we are. It truly doesn't make sense to me. 

 

Okay, that was my rant. As for the rest of the team… you can see that our scheming and concepts are there and when executed we can be effective on the field. I would like for us to find ways to let Bryce be Bryce because some of his best plays in this game felt like there was someone else managing the situation. This could be an overprotective coach, or it could be the fact that this stuff truly doesn't trust our oline.

Bryce has some things to clean up, but there is a lot of impressive decision making here by a rookie who is constantly under pressure. I get fans are frustrated and want to see home run balls and cool looking passes, but that is just not the offense we are bringing in on sundays. The fact is that we have led in every game we have played this year and are making mental mistakes. We have to tighten it up if we want to have a season that is not a disaster.

 

Mental mistakes is a key point!! Icky has caused key plays to come back!!  Not sure when Corbett comes back.. hopefully soon to get stability out there

[ForJimmy]

1 hour ago, *FreeFua* said:

Shy Tuttle struggling what a shock 

Guy wasn’t even good in New Orleans and we grossly overpaid for him. Easily one of the dumbest/confusing contracts handed out all offseason 

I think Shy can be serviceable as a DE. Maybe we can sign a legit DT next year and let him play his more natural position?

[ForJimmy]

Great work @TheCasillas! These have become my new favorite weekly traditions.

[Cdparr7]

1 hour ago, thennek said:

So game one when Brady was playing…..was the o-line better? That could help figure if it is scheme or personnel.

Also I wonder if Zavala is better at RG vs LG? He is a rookie and already playing in his second position. Maybe moving him around messed his development. 

 

I am telling you with every fiber in my body it is scheme. It is high school ball. This poo was outdated when I played D2 years ago. He literally runs base zones 90% of the time and then twice per game runs this lame ass fake trap where the TE does a wham block and back runs opposite the pulling guards.

This is a “I work at Dollar General so I can coach JV football” offense.

[AceBoogie]

3 hours ago, LinvilleGorge said:

I appreciate the effort and there's no way I'd put this effort into subjecting myself to watching this again but my goodness the expectations have cratered to call that an "absolute insane throw". That throw you keep drooling over is the type of throw you just expect NFL QBs to make.

A throw you say Bryce can’t make is the point. It’s cool man you’re too deep down your anti Bryce campaign so you have to keep it going. Going to suck to be on the wrong side of history and I’ll be here to remind you of it. 

[Cdparr7]

1 minute ago, Cdparr7 said:

I am telling you with every fiber in my body it is scheme. It is high school ball. This poo was outdated when I played D2 years ago. He literally runs base zones 90% of the time and then twice per game runs this lame ass fake trap where the TE does a wham block and back runs opposite the pulling guards.

This is a “I work at Dollar General so I can coach JV football” offense.

Literally this (but in shotgun) and base zones- all game.

 

[LinvilleGorge]

3 minutes ago, AceBoogie said:

A throw you say Bryce can’t make is the point. It’s cool man you’re too deep down your anti Bryce campaign so you have to keep it going. Going to suck to be on the wrong side of history and I’ll be here to remind you of it. 

It's isn't some insane awesome throw. It's a good throw that I expect any NFL QB to be able to make. If that's the shining jewel to hang your hat on after three starts...well, that's my point.

Hell, I HOPE I'm wrong. I hope Bryce is great. I'm not anti-Bryce. He seems like a great guy... who just hasn't shown NFL caliber talent through three games.

[AceBoogie]

14 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

It's isn't some insane awesome throw. It's a good throw that I expect any NFL QB to be able to make. If that's the shining jewel to hang your hat on after three starts...well, that's my point.

Hell, I HOPE I'm wrong. I hope Bryce is great. I'm not anti-Bryce. He seems like a great guy... who just hasn't shown NFL caliber talent through three games.

Hasn’t shown NFL caliber talent while making throws you expect NFL QBs to make?… You know what, nevermind mistake. 

[Mr Mojo Risin]

4 hours ago, TheCasillas said:

Hey everyone, here is this week's A22 review. I broke it out into defense then offense then video reviews. I attempted to include everyone's request. If I missed your request feel free to ask me here and I can provide some insight and maybe chop up a quick video.

 

I also attempted to make this mobile friendly with links - let me know if you prefer this format.

 

Defense Quick Hits

 

• Run defense looked to be mainly playing the pass on Sunday and this led to a lot of rushing opportunities for Minnesota

• We ran a cover 3 defense out of 2-4-5 and this impacted our ability to play the run

• Chinn played spell for Grugier-Hill, and was at the line of scrimmage a lot of plays. Chinn had an excellent day and I think I am finally figuring out what Evero’s plan is with Chinn

• Luvu out of position on a couple of runs early in the game and this gave up some big yardage on some rushes

• Our run defense is lacking a big bruising linebacker. Vikings had open holes primarily because we didn’t have that second level body to fill it. I would like to see a big linebacker on this roster next year

• YGM was the reason the deep ball fell short for Cousins on the DPI play… straight bull rush into Cousins. YGM had an awesome disruption on a Mattison redzone touch. Potential TD without YGM. He had a very very good game. If YGM continues at the pace he is at, he can shake that 2nd round bust tag easily.

• Troy Hill is aggressive to the spot and doesn’t give up on plays – love his motor

• Hats off to Franklin on his pick 6.. That was 100% execution of Evero’s scheme. Kirk doesn't throw that ball if Franklin doesn’t engage his man the way he did

• DJ Johnson was responsible for a run stop in the first quarter. He pushed his man into the hole and led to a run for no gain. DJ is in our run stop package with YGM during this game.  DJ Johnson looks like he is a strong mother fugger. I expect him to active in games to come 

• I have counted a couple of plays where CJ was in JJ’s hip pocket. The routes were mainly out routes and stop routes.

• When the Vikings ran a 2 TE set .. Chinn was on the sideline

• Shy Tuttle is really struggling in our defense

 

Offense Quick Hits

 

• We are struggling to find a TE (outside of Hurst) on this roster to execute all ends of this offense. We tried Ricci early and his run blocking was bad.

 

• As the game began to progress the Vikings put more and more players on Thielen. There was one play where they had two corners and two safeties on Thielen. TMJ got a 30 yard gain that was called back for holding by Bozeman.

 

• The delay of the game that was called in the game appeared to be some communication issues between Bozeman. Bozeman was saying something to Bryce as Bryce was saying something to Hubbard, and then Bryce went up to Bozeman to check and then by the time the ball was snapped the clock hit 0.

 

• The Vikings ran the same play twice on a single drive against us. It was a screenplay to the tight end. The first one was called back on a hold and then 3 plays later they called the exact same play and it went for a big gain. 

 

• Justin Jefferson’s ability to stop on a dime is just unreal. There are multiple plays where he just instantly stops and turns. He did not receive the ball on all of them, but if Cousins saw him… he would have been good for another 2-3 catches.

 

• Our run blocking is just outright bad right now. There is no sugar coating this. Zavala struggles to get to the second level, and there just isn’t any chemistry along the line. The timing is just off. There is no other way of putting this… the offensive line is just not winning. No push at all across the line. 

 

• It is time to bench Zavala and let him grow by watching

• Thorckmorton was on and off, better pass blocker than run blocker by far.

• Laviska is a gadget player, and the  team needs to embrace this. He is our 4th reciever and saw run in the 2nd half but his routes were more decoy and short than anything else. 

 

Video Highlights

 

• In the first quarter Bryce’s first pass went for over 15+ yards.. He finds Thielen on a medium post route. This is a great read and anticipation play by Bryce. It does appear to be a designed play to go to AT as a primary read and then TMJ as the second. This is a solid play design. [VIDEO]

 

• The dropped TD pass by Ian was brutal. It’s the right read for Bryce, and you can’t put that ball in any better of a position. We truly need to get Stephen Sullivan back if we want to see some of these plays land successfully [VIDEO]

 

• Absolutely insane throw by Bryce Young that he won't get credit for because Chark did not come up with it. However, this throw hits Chark right in the face mask. The elements of this throw are the reasons why everyone and anyone should be excited about Bryce. [VIDEO][VIDEO2]

  • Busy Pocket

  • Off Platform

  • Ultra Quick Release

  • DOT

 

• For the Vikings first TD falls on D’shawn Jamison. His PFF grade was bad because both TDs were his fault. In this video you will notice that he is caught in no man’s land while Franklin is expecting him to fill the middle to take away the easy pitch and catch for cousins and jefferson. This sucks because it was a third down. [VIDEO]

 

• I will all be the judge, but from this angle it does not appear that the ball was as much as a hospital ball as we thought for Thielen when he was injured. It appears that Bryce was expecting Thielen to settle in the zone. If you notice in this video Thielen begins to slow down and appears that he is settling, but I think his momentum carries him forward and the ball is behind him. That being said, if this isn't the case then it is a behind throw by Bryce. [VIDEO]

 

• Sack on Cousins was really solid by YGM. He just kept his motor going and chased down Cousins. The other piece to note here is that this was a coverage sack and a solid job by CJ staying with Jefferson. [VIDEO]

 

• Awesome coverage by both CJ and Chinn. They both shutdown their intended target on this play. Great work. [VIDEO]

 

• This is a play that many love to see Bryce do. I think he does a great job here finding an opportunity to create extra time and hit Thielen…. However, I really would have liked to see Bryce step up here instead of breaking the pocket and wait for the deep route to DJ Chark develop. This is very nitpick, and this is a great overall play. I am just curious about the possibility of going to DJ. We did not call many deep plays, but this is one of them. I would also like to see the o-line block for just one deep shot. [VIDEO]

 

• Here is the deep ball that Bryce threw to DJ that came up short. An interesting piece here that was not taken into consideration when we were watching the game is the fact that Bryce is hit here when throwing the deep ball which obviously took off some power behind his throw. Bryce is unable to finish his full throwing motion, this led to a wobbler that we all thought Bryce just weak armed it.. [VIDEO]

 

• This is a great play design to set up a Laviska screen. We overload the left side of the line to get the Vikings defense to favor that side. We then bring Tremble in motion to set up a lead block to set up a solid gain. This is the kind of stuff that deserves some praise in our playbook. [VIDEO]

 

• I am going to let you all be the judge here… but the flag on Ickey for ineligible receiver is debatable. I have slowed down the video for you to make a call. Typically the rule states that an ineligible receiver is someone that is 1-2 yards past the LOS that is not blocking another player. Ickey is not only blocking someone, he is also at the 2.5 yard mark at the time of release from BY. The thing that gets me here is how late the ref throws the flag, as if he didnt see it until it was too late. You tell me. [VIDEO] 

 

• Starting to see a theme here with our deep shots…. Sacks. This is the fumble play by Bryce. Looks like this play was a deep shot to Chark on the right side, but it just never developed. We had both DJ Chark and Marsette going big on this play. We just can’t line these calls up with our protection. Very Frustrating. [VIDEO]

 

• Another play where we call a deep shot but this time to Thielen. Our oline just can’t hold the pocket long enough for the QB to do anything with it. Zavala gets absolutely destroyed on this play. [VIDEO]

 

• Another sack on Bryce. There is just nowhere to go with the ball… a throwaway would be nice, but I just can’t see how he does it with the time and the routes on the field that does not turn into an intentional grounding. Zavala again being bounced around at the LOS  [VIDEO]

 

• This is the stuff that won’t get the appreciation it deserves and most coaches are excited when they see their rookie protect the football and not try to force it. This is one of those small things, like Bryce -  lol. Here you will notice that he looks at every option on the field before finding his dump down. Every single option is covered here, but Bryce does not try to force… even though he knows we are down 8 with less than 5 minutes to go in the game. [VIDEO]

 

• No one open, and Bryce gets the first down with his feet while the pocket crumbles around him. [VIDEO]

 

• Great pocket navigation by Bryce to move around and keep the playing going. Finds DJ Chark on a deep mid route who settles in the zone. I personally think the ball is where it needs to be and Chark should have settled sooner in the soft spot of the zone, but the other argument can be made that this ball is behind him. Your call. Solid gain. [VIDEO]

 

• Another solid zone ball by Bryce and throwing to a spot where he does not get his receiver killed. Great read on the zone play and hits TMJ in the soft spot of the zone. [VIDEO]

 

• I have no idea if Hubbard was told to support Zavala on this or if it was just a blown blitz pickup…  but it cost us a touchdown. This play concept was perfect for the moment as the intended target was Adam Thielen. The design is for Ian to run a short out route to keep the corner down and Thielen to run a deep slant and get open in the back of the endzone. However, due to the blocking assignments… Bryce is sacked in less than 1.8s and we are unable to take advantage. This really bums me out, because I truly think Hubbard was asked to help Zavala here. Chuba immediately goes to Zavala’s left hip, if Zaval was able to hold his own, I believe Chuba blocks Smith and this is a TD to Thielen. [VIDEO] 

 

Overall, I am coming away more frustrated with our offensive line more than anything else. It’s hard to blame our skill players because they are not getting opportunities in this offense due to the inability of our oline to show any resemblance of a functional product. I really think this is a Campen issue. Other teams in the NFL are experiencing similar issues but are not struggling as badly as we are. It truly doesn't make sense to me. 

 

Okay, that was my rant. As for the rest of the team… you can see that our scheming and concepts are there and when executed we can be effective on the field. I would like for us to find ways to let Bryce be Bryce because some of his best plays in this game felt like there was someone else managing the situation. This could be an overprotective coach, or it could be the fact that this stuff truly doesn't trust our oline.

Bryce has some things to clean up, but there is a lot of impressive decision making here by a rookie who is constantly under pressure. I get fans are frustrated and want to see home run balls and cool looking passes, but that is just not the offense we are bringing in on sundays. The fact is that we have led in every game we have played this year and are making mental mistakes. We have to tighten it up if we want to have a season that is not a disaster.

 

Would pie you multiple times if I could. Thank you for the write up. Bryce just needs more time, our offense needs more time. Unfortunately there is going to be some ugly football with such a young team. I would like to see Zavala get some more mental reps and maybe some spot duty before continuing to start him. I think that's what will happen when Corbett finally makes it back from injury

[BIGH2001]

7 hours ago, Cdparr7 said:

Literally this (but in shotgun) and base zones- all game.

 

Looks like what we used to run with Brad Hoover and Kris Mangum 2 decades ago. 

[mrcompletely11]

8 hours ago, AceBoogie said:

Hasn’t shown NFL caliber talent while making throws you expect NFL QBs to make?… You know what, nevermind mistake. 

why dont you just ignore him?