Jump to content
  • Welcome!

    Register and log in easily with Twitter or Google accounts!

    Or simply create a new Huddle account. 

    Members receive fewer ads , access our dark theme, and the ability to join the discussion!

     

Unheralded Architect of the Carolina Panthers


CPantherKing

Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, X-Clown said:

Did I really just see an argument that calls Keary Colbert a good draft pick? Or was the gravy from yesterday's turkey spiked?

I had to read it twice myself.....Ohhh and I forgot to include Dwayne Jarrett on my above list of horrible Hurney picks and no list of Horrible Hurney picks is complete without him. My apologies

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Jeremy Igo said:

The man just didn't miss on top 10 picks. 

 

The rest of the draft? eh. 

It's almost as if he spent too much time researching his top picks.  Like in 2011, they spent ALL their energy researching Cam and the guys at the top of the draft.  They don't have anyone else from 2011 on the roster.  It paid off though, without Cam this team is no where.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 minutes ago, X-Clown said:

Did I really just see an argument that calls Keary Colbert a good draft pick? Or was the gravy from yesterday's turkey spiked?

Colbert was a starter for the 2005 Panthers team that went to the NFC Championship game. He was a major contributor to that season. 2005 Keary Colbert would be the #1 WR for the 2015 Panthers team. Do not discount him because he struggled after playing through the 2005 season injured, and sitting out most the 2006 season with that injury. He never made it back. Same way I do not discount Patrick Jeffers, David Gettis, and Tim Biakabatuka due to their injuries. It is part of the game. Will you say KB was a bust if he struggles to return to form? The average player gets 3 seasons in the NFL.

 

16 minutes ago, electro's horse said:

lol is gantt really giving hurney credit for a guy drafted in the fifth round who took 4 years to become good

If you are speaking of Barnidge, yes Hurney gets the credit. Hurney wanted Barnidge to replace Shockey in the two TE sets. It was Gettleman who let Barnidge walk for the Brandon Williams project, and had to can that project in favor of Ed Dickson. Panthers lost out because of that move by Gettleman. Not only is Barnidge better, he cost half as much as Dickson if he was signed to an extension. Barnidge is still here if Hurney remained the GM.

 

29 minutes ago, Clicheking said:

A lot of the players were 2nd and 3rd rounders and lasted less than a year.....He literally hit on 12-15 players out a possible 60+, that means 75% of the players he drafted after the 1st couldn't make the team.

First, your numbers are wrong. Second, every GM misses outside of the first round. The bad GMs miss inside of the first round. All GMs have a ton of draft picks that never make it past a year. On average a player lasts 3 years in the league. There are 256 picks a year in the draft.

There have been 113 first team all-pro players drafted since 2002. Care to guess where Marty Hurney ranks? 2nd. He will jump to 1st if Cam Newton, Josh Norman and Thomas Davis make 1st team all pro this year.

And if you believe he only hit on 12 to 15 players over 10 drafts, then you believe pro bowlers and all pros are the only thing that count as hitting in the draft. After Norman and Davis make the pro bowl this year, Hurney will rank 5th among GMs since 2002.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Jeremy Igo said:

The man just didn't miss on top 10 picks. 

 

The rest of the draft? eh. 

Except for Josh Norman, Greg Hardy, Ryan Kalil, Charles Johnson, Brandon LaFell, Chris Gamble, Thomas Davis, Jonathan Stewart, DeAngelo Williams, Jon Beason, Evan Mathis, Gary Barnidge, Steve Smith, Kris Jenkins, Dan Morgan, DeShaun Foster, Travelle Wharton, Geoff Hangartner, etc. 

And traded a 5th for Greg Olsen.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

go home CP, you're drunk.

Keary Colbert was garbage. He had a nice rookie year, but teams quickly found out about him and he never really recovered. Now yeah Steve Smith was mean to him, and Jake probably didn't look his way as much when Smith returned, but the guy just wasn't cut out to be an NFL player. He wasn't particularly good at anything, except he had good hands. And that doesn't matter at all if you're soft, can't get off the line, and don't have very good straight line speed. The following year he was fourth on the team in receptions and yards, behind running back deshaun foster. 

Hurney loved guys like this. Dudes without any of the measurable whos ceiling was a promising, average year (hellow James Anderson). The fact he hung around as long as he did is a testament more to Hurney's woes of acquiring WRs and less his talent. Colbert was the definition of Just A Guy.

As far as him being the number 1 receiver on the team right now, no for a couple reasons. Olsen is the number 1 receiver on this team, regardless of his position. With 5 games left he already has more yards than Keary got his entire rookie year. As far as "well he's better than the dudes they have," not really. Look at what Gettleman wants out there; you're either fast as poo (Ginn, Brown) or big (Funchess). Colbert was about Cotchery's size, but had none of the success or "veteran presence" that coaches love so much. I don't really see a role for him on this team.

Finally, if your barometer for a WR is how well he'd do compared to the worst receiving corp in the NFL, then you probably need to reevaluate that. 

I was not speaking of Barnidge, I was speaking of Norman. As far as Barnidge is concerned, he doesn't fit the gettleman mold. Say what you want about Dickson, but he can block at least. Barnidge was undersized and couldn't block anything. Now, for Hurney wanting him to replace Shockey, he got that chance. In 2012, when Hurney and Chud were still here, and with that chance, he got.... 5 catches in 16 games. 

A guy is having a fluke season after 8 in the league. Let's not pretend Hurney was some evil genius for drafting him and knowing the entire time IF HE JUST GOT HIS CHANCE HE'D BE GOLDEN. I mean for god's sake if Hurney was really some idiot savant who knew Barnidge was an all pro just waiting to break out he probably doesn't wait until the fifth round to draft him, unless he also knew when other teams were looking to draft him, making him a precog or something.

Lastly, I've gone into Hurney's drafts a thousand times on this board and I'm late for something, but you're stupid for using counting stats. Hurney hung around for over a decade, of course he's going to have more accolades when the average length of time as a gm is like four years. In that time span he's realistically only competing with Andy Reid, Bill Belichick, and Bill Polian. And I guess Ozzie Smith. 

Hurney was hella bad after 2007. Drafting Cam and Luke was a nice consolation prize. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Clicheking said:

Not sure if your joking or serious. Of that list Johnson, Norman, Kalil, Nortman, Capn, Wharton and Witherspoon and Hardy were impactful play FOR Carolina. Mathis and Barnidge after they left, most of those other players are marginal players at best, and/or don't have any business on a championship level team ie: Nick Hayden, Jeff King. I got a list for you: Everrette Brown, Jimmy Clause, Sione Fua, Terrell Mclain, Amanti Edwards, Attiyah Ellison, Kilah Pilares, Eric Shelton, Duke Robinson, Corvey Irvin,  Sherrod Martin,  Eric Norwood, Brandon Hogan. A lot of the players were 2nd and 3rd rounders and lasted less than a year.....He literally hit on 12-15 players out a possible 60+, that means 75% of the players he drafted after the 1st couldn't make the team. For a team that doesn't do much in free agency that will cripple your frannchise for example the 2011 season.

You have to look at how he compares to other gms. He's average not awful after the 1st round.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, CPantherKing said:

I know there are two strong parties regarding the following topic, but we must step back and give thanks to Marty Hurney for what he put together the second time around.

Here is an article by Darin Gantt from PFT that gives him that respect. 

Undefeated Panthers still have Marty Hurney’s fingerprints on roster:

So, in the spirit of the holiday weekend I want to give thanks.

Thank you Hurney, and thank you Gettleman for being humble and not blowing up the foundation set by Hurney. It is going to pay off for another decade.

No one can doubt that Hurney eventually painted himself into a corner when it came to the cap. We can all agree, however, that he did pick a great shade of paint to do it with.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.


  • PMH4OWPW7JD2TDGWZKTOYL2T3E.jpg

  • Topics

  • Posts

    • If we pay Bryce like a franchise QB we're completely and utterly buttfuged.
    • In my view, the realistic expectation for this team to compete will start 2027.  At that time, I think we could be looking at the following (this is HIGHLY speculative):   QB:  You know, Bryce.  I am not a fan, but they don't ask me.  But there is reason for hope--and here it is.  Bryce will be entering his prime.  Since we are likely to pay him, there will be changes that I include throughout this exercise--I realistically speculate on what they are going to do with Bryce and then I realistically speculate on what means in terms of the cap and other positions. Bryce HAS IMPROVED.  The idea is that if you give him more weapons and protection, that will continue.  His career:   At this rate, if his growth continues, by 2027 we should expect nearly 30 TDs and about 12 Interceptions and a Rating of about 98.  His completion percentage should settle at 65-66% or so.  If that happens, you can win with it. The following stats demonstrate how the Panthers will be able to afford it (and re-sign Ickey) My guess is they will require about $60m per year. This is why rookies who can play are important.  It also helps us see the blueprint.  You may disagree, but this is the cruel realities of the salary cap. Robert Hunt:  Cut post June 1 and save $19m.  Who do you replace him with?  Ickey. Tershawn Wharton:  Cutting him saves nearly $15m.  We should all hope to see Aaron Hall (UDFA) make the roster and play well.  Regardless, this is a position we would likely have to address in the next draft. Trevin Moehrig:  Cutting Moehrig as the starting SS saves this team $16.5m.   Ransom will be on year 3 of a cheap rookie deal and should be more than ready to take the reins.  their styles are similar.  Furthermore, FS Wheatley (R, 4th round) will be starting. Taylor Moton:  So much depends on his knee, but I have an idea that he can play another 3 years.  extending him could save the team about $5m per year.  Cutting him outright would save the team about $21m. In the most drastic situation, we have to cut Moton and the other three players mentioned.   We would need (in all likelihood) a starting DT and RT.  It is possible that the DE would be addressed, but Wharton's production (so far) could be equaled by a rookie.  Look for a cut free agent and a 2027 draft pick here.  If you cut Moton, you save $21m, and that would be the only big hole to fill.  Having Ickey at RG gives you some depth at T, and Ickey could be the guy.  T could be pick in the 2027 draft (first round), fwiw.  It saves you $21m while costing you $5m, for example. We get younger, creating a core of Freeling, Hecht, and the RT first rounder in 2027) along with Ekownu (second contract in the $15m range, and Lewis, whose contract would be in the $16m range if not extended.)  The OL cuts (Hunt, Moton) would save $40m.  The OL would get younger and still solid with veterans at G.   By cutting Wharton (no brainer if his play stays the same) and Moehrig (good player--but we have Ransom on a rookie contract who would not be that much of a drop off--if any) in addition to Hunt and Moton, we would save over $70m in cap room. We would be able to give Bryce bag  and we would have enough to re-sign Ickey (if the knee is not too risky) to a Guard contract (probably at a discount, coming off that injury).  Furthermore, we could add a RT in the draft (or a RG if Ickey moves to RT) and that would be the only large hole to fill. Correct my logic if you see issues-- On defense, in addition to the aforementioned, Scott ($2m contract) is out, replaced by a 4th round rookie contract. CB Jackson's contract ($7.8m) expires and he is (possibly) replaced by a rookie contract.  At Edge, patrick Jones II's $10m contract expires and he is likely a reserve, and his role is absorbed by Phillips, Scourton, Princely, and possible an UDFA like Isaiah Smith or a 2027 draft pick.   These productive developmental players over the past 2 drafts will pay huge dividends.  On paper, I see the team getting much younger and possibly better while cutting nearly $100m and reallocating that money to get more production.          
    • If everything played out and that last thing happened, I probably just quit. 
×
×
  • Create New...