Is Burns really worth backing up a Brinks truck?

[kungfoodude]

2 hours ago, top dawg said:

They made this more complex than it had to be. He should have been traded because we aren't the right fit for him, so in that sense he is not worth what we're going to have to pay him. Now we could still get more immediate draft capital...hopefully...because he is still so young and hasn't hit his prime, but I surely wouldn't have bet on that. And, if they want to keep him (which would be ill-advised), we better have a coach in mind that prefers the 3-4 so that Burns can be all that he can be...as a pass rushing LB (ironically in the mold of the much cheaper Haason Reddick).

That's the thing, we don't know what the next coach is going to want to run as far as scheme.

But, it doesn't mean that we cannot move Burns in the future, as well. It's very possibly that we might still be able to get a haul for him if he doesn't fit in our future plans.

[Donald LaFell]

If we sign him to a big contract then you will have to invest more into the D-line to make sure he won’t be doubled as much. 

[rippadonn]

2 hours ago, top dawg said:

They made this more complex than it had to be. He should have been traded because we aren't the right fit for him, so in that sense he is not worth what we're going to have to pay him. Now we could still get more immediate draft capital...hopefully...because he is still so young and hasn't hit his prime, but I surely wouldn't have bet on that. And, if they want to keep him (which would be ill-advised), we better have a coach in mind that prefers the 3-4 so that Burns can be all that he can be...as a pass rushing LB (ironically in the mold of the much cheaper Haason Reddick).

That 3-4 needs to go. Been there in 1996 and done that already the Panthers already moved away from that crap because it's hard to compete when guys are giving up inches and 10+ pounds.

David Tepper came in here and told Ron to do that and I'm sure when they agreed on 3-4 that was deal done for Rhule.

Burns and Anderson are better suited for 3-4 but that weak sht defense needs to gtfoh.

 

[Mr. Scot]

10 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

That's the thing, we don't know what the next coach is going to want to run as far as scheme.

But, it doesn't mean that we cannot move Burns in the future, as well. It's very possibly that we might still be able to get a haul for him if he doesn't fit in our future plans.

Heck, we could end up with a coach that wants to run a 3-4.

I haven't typically been that big a fan of Burns because I feel like he's a scheme mismatch. With that said, the market determines what someone is worth, and the market in this case said Burns was worth two firsts and a second.

So yeah, that means that at least the market thinks he's worth a big contract.

[Jon Snow]

4 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Heck, we could end up with a coach that wants to run a 3-4.

I haven't typically been that big a fan of Burns because I feel like he's a scheme mismatch. With that said, the market determines what someone is worth, and the market in this case said Burns was worth two firsts and a second.

So yeah, that means that at least the market thinks he's worth a big contract.

As long as we're not the team to give him that contract I really do not care what someone else is willing to pay him. This is a bad investment for us.

[bigdog10]

12 hours ago, uncfan888 said:

Fitterer should have took the picks.. Now he pretty much has to pay burns whatever he wants. The management of this team is a disaster 

I wouldn’t be stunned if we try and trade him in the off-season. The package we will receive will be a lot less than what we would have gotten from the Rams. 
 

They really screwed the pooch on this one. 

[kungfoodude]

Just now, bigdog10 said:

I wouldn’t be stunned if we try and trade him in the off-season. The package we will receive will be a lot less than what we would have gotten from the Rams. 
 

They really screwed the pooch on this one. 

I am not 100% sure it will be "a lot less."

We still could very well get a haul for him. If anything, we should have a lot more suitors because of the extended timeline.

[SetfreexX]

I feel like some of ya'll don't even watch him in our base fronts...he's normally standing up in a 2pt. 

Every now and then you see him in the Wide 9's, or a 3pt. 

People have to stop trying to force the idea that we run a traditional 4-3 defense, we don't and we haven't for a while. 

We've been hybrid more than anything with Even, and Odd fronts. 

''Pass Rushers'' get paid, that's just what it is, and that is his best attribute so he will get paid, he's on the 4th year of his rookie deal, and had his 5th year option picked up for 2023. They fact folks are worried about paying him is silly. 

The real piece is with NO help, he still has 6 sacks as the THE ONLY person an offense needs to pay attention to on the edge, and he is still producing. 

What ya'll should be looking at is who we can pair with him, to ease the load. I can understand not giving the ''bag'' to Reddick as he's somewhere between 10-20 lbs lighter than Brian (Reddick is 230-240 ish), and when Rhule nixed the signing of Carlos Dunlap (if you don't know go do your research) it hurt that group as we were in the latter stages of the FA period post draft and pickings were slim.

Brian is what you ''need'' in the NFL to win, you have to get after the QB and he does that as well as some of the best in the game, but stop trying to box him into a 4-3 role, he's not that. There really aren't a ton of guys in that ''traditional'' 43 role that excel as rushers. There are names, but the position is not what it used to be as Nickel is the base personnel package in the modern NFL, most teams are in it 60-70% of the time since offense feature 11 personnel, and spread sets, defending the run is harder because there are less big bodies on the field, and more space to run + dual threat QBs being more prominent in this era.

 

 

[theinstrumental]

Guys, he is an exceptional pass rusher and he is 24 years old, let's stop complaining about the imperfections in his game. He's worth paying. (If you're not going to trade him, which they obviously should have done.)

[Mr. Scot]

1 minute ago, SetfreexX said:

I feel like some of ya'll don't even watch him in our base fronts...he's normally standing up in a 2pt. 

Every now and then you see him in the Wide 9's, or a 3pt. 

People have to stop trying to force the idea that we run a traditional 4-3 defense, we don't and we haven't for a while. 

We've been hybrid more than anything with Even, and Odd fronts. 

''Pass Rushers'' get paid, that's just what it is, and that is his best attribute so he will get paid, he's on the 4th year of his rookie deal, and had his 5th year option picked up for 2023. They fact folks are worried about paying him is silly. 

The real piece is with NO help, he still has 6 sacks as the THE ONLY person an offense needs to pay attention to on the edge, and he is still producing. 

What ya'll should be looking at is who we can pair with him, to ease the load. I can understand not giving the ''bag'' to Reddick as he's somewhere between 10-20 lbs lighter than Brian (Reddick is 230-240 ish), and when Rhule nixed the signing of Carlos Dunlap (if you don't know go do your research) it hurt that group as we were in the latter stages of the FA period post draft and pickings were slim.

Brian is what you ''need'' in the NFL to win, you have to get after the QB and he does that as well as some of the best in the game, but stop trying to box him into a 4-3 role, he's not that. There really aren't a ton of guys in that ''traditional'' 43 role that excel as rushers. There are names, but the position is not what it used to be as Nickel is the base personnel package in the modern NFL, most teams are in it 60-70% of the time since offense feature 11 personnel, and spread sets, defending the run is harder because there are less big bodies on the field, and more space to run + dual threat QBs being more prominent in this era.

Good analysis.

One thing that we heard a lot this offseason was that we needed to get more pass rushing help, and it's valid. Teams can focus pretty heavily on Burns because nobody else is much of a threat.

I'm not sure letting go of Burns puts us in a better position if we have to not only replace him but then still turn around and try and get someone to help his replacement.

(and I say all this is a Burns skeptic)

[CRA]

No.  He isn't.  

and we have fallen into that trap before.  The but we have to overpay him because what would life be like with out him.  We don't have anything. 

You can go out and rent a one dimensional pass rusher if you need one. 

[gofightwin]

On a team looking to make a run in the playoffs, yes.  A rebuilding team that is years away from even making the playoffs, no. Should have made the trade even if it isn't for 2023 picks.  

When is the last time Burns made a significant impact on a game? Sure he gets some sacks but they never seem to be when we "need" them. He is a one trick pony that, when its working...it works.  But when an OL has the tools to contain him, he makes zero impact.  He is a liability against the run as well. 

He is good at what he does...applying pressure, but that's about it. But at 20+ million/yr on a rebuilding team with jokes for other DE? Nah I would have rather taken the 3 picks. 

[SetfreexX]

A lot of ya'll done forgot those Kony Ealy no pass rush days, it was so sad we had to trade for Allen right before he retired. 

You don't trade a player you'll have to hope to replace at a PREMIUM position. 

The way ya'll talk you want him to be Peppers, Garrett, etc. 

Burns will get paid, but I don't think it's going to reset the market, but wit will be fair comp, and that is still the remainder of this year and next season away, where the cap will have increased 2x, and we will have plenty of cap. 

This team is good QB play away from .500 ish ball, and a few pieces in total away from making a playoff push. All of which could be addressed this of-season. 

QB / 2nd Edge -- right now are the glaring absences on this roster; continued competent coaching will also go a long way. 

[Brooklyn 3.0]

There are EASILY ten defensive guys in the NFL who are worth twice what Burns is worth. Dude can't even get 10 sacks (fingers crossed for this season lol) and we're going to pay him like he's a TJ Watt.