Jump to content
  • Welcome!

    Register and log in easily with Twitter or Google accounts!

    Or simply create a new Huddle account. 

    Members receive fewer ads , access our dark theme, and the ability to join the discussion!

     

Cynthia Frelund with an interesting analytics look at CJ Stroud and Bryce Young


TheSpecialJuan
 Share

Recommended Posts

3 hours ago, CPcavedweller said:

I also remember Darnold getting crushed a few times waiting so long...can't wait to see Young get bear hugged by a 6'5 340 lb dude.

That's my concern.  Banking on a young QB that is 5' 10-1/2 and probably legitimately 195 is a big gamble. 

I know, the NFL protects QBs but that is about like finding out the local police department  closes 97% of homocide cases.  Great, and it probably cuts down on murder, but it doesn't mean much for those attending the funeral, nor fans seeing the penalty flag next to the guy stretched out on the field.

Young is going to get hit, and his general build raises concerns about his ability to withstand it.

I won't be upset if they draft him, but I will hold my breath every time he gets wallopped, penalty flag or no.

  • Pie 1
  • Beer 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, Sgt Schultz said:

That's my concern.  Banking on a young QB that is 5' 10-1/2 and probably legitimately 195 is a big gamble. 

I know, the NFL protects QBs but that is about like finding out the local police department  closes 97% of homocide cases.  Great, and it probably cuts down on murder, but it doesn't mean much for those attending the funeral, nor fans seeing the penalty flag next to the guy stretched out on the field.

Young is going to get hit, and his general build raises concerns about his ability to withstand it.

I won't be upset if they draft him, but I will hold my breath every time he gets wallopped, penalty flag or no.

Well if you listen to some folks here bc bigger frame QB's have gotten injured too that somehow means it won't happen to Bryce Young. Which is bizarre to say the least because if I'm looking at the situation I'm saying the opposite. Seeing someone like Darnold get sent to IR by the Falcons tells me all I need to know about the likelihood of one the smaller framed QB's in recent years surviving a 10+ year career without accumulating some injuries along the way. If he's your guy in my mind you have to change your offensive approach not just in game planning but you need an even heavier emphasis on offensive line. And even then there are still going to be  certain situations where you are simply at a disadvantage. Like QB sneaks in short yardage situations which Reich likes to run if I'm not mistaken. That's not happening with Young.

  • Pie 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 3/31/2023 at 4:40 AM, rayzor said:

Stroud is the safest bet of this class because of his style of play and his approach to the game.

Like I've said many times, I'd be thrilled as can be to have either him or Young and maybe even AR, because I think all 3 could be special if put in the correct situation (and I think ours is the best one any of them could hope for). 

But AR and Young are more of a gamble than Stroud. 

I wish we just had one more season of tape on AR. I ain’t gonna lie dudes built like a beast. But you don’t draft projects 1 overall.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Doc Holiday said:

I wish we just had one more season of tape on AR. I ain’t gonna lie dudes built like a beast. But you don’t draft projects 1 overall.

If you do, you better be beyond confident that 1) he can be the greatest and 2) you've got what it takes to get him there. 

  • Pie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

26 minutes ago, rayzor said:

If you do, you better be beyond confident that 1) he can be the greatest and 2) you've got what it takes to get him there. 

This. I think a lot of people have forgotten because of how good he turned out to be right away that Cam was considered a project too.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Sgt Schultz said:

That's my concern.  Banking on a young QB that is 5' 10-1/2 and probably legitimately 195 is a big gamble. 

I know, the NFL protects QBs but that is about like finding out the local police department  closes 97% of homocide cases.  Great, and it probably cuts down on murder, but it doesn't mean much for those attending the funeral, nor fans seeing the penalty flag next to the guy stretched out on the field.

Young is going to get hit, and his general build raises concerns about his ability to withstand it.

I won't be upset if they draft him, but I will hold my breath every time he gets wallopped, penalty flag or no.

You also have to think that in the NFL, probably half of the DE's and all linebackers will be just as fast as he is. So his mobility isn't going to be nearly as much of an advantage at this level. Add in the fact that he's got Jimmy Clausen Arm strength and I'd be worried. You also saw the drop off between last year and this year after he lost two first round receivers, even with a Kamara clan in Gibbs and the still, Uber talented receivers Bama has.

Maybe the experts have it right but man, trading all of what we did to move up and rolling the dice on Young breaking the mold? We rolled the dice on Cam because he, at the time, was a unicorn, much like Richardson but with much better mechanics. 

You're on the opposite end of the spectrum with Bryce where he has to do everything in spite of his size and lack of elite traits. I'm just not buying that Levis, Richardson, and Stroud wouldn't have done just as well if not better than Young if they were at Bama. Thats the thing. 

If you substitute any one of these QB's for each other, what would it look like? Levis has the arm and some of his throws are very NFL-esque where he is holding safeties with his eyes then making the throw 0.5 seconds later to a tiny opening. He's making timing throws, reading and holding safeties, calling protections and audibles, playing with half as much talent at Kentucky as Young has had.

I don't know man. My order would be Stroud, Levis, Richardson, Haener, Hooker, Young. I can bookmark this to revisit in December but I really think, in terms of NFL success, that's what it's going to look like. If Levis falls and I'm the Steelers, I may even consider picking him up in the 1st and offloading Pickett. 

  • Beer 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, LinvilleGorge said:

This. I think a lot of people have forgotten because of how good he turned out to be right away that Cam was considered a project too.

Cam had66.1% completion percentage with 30 td's and 7 ints and 1473 yds rushing.

AR had 53.8% completion percentage with 17td's and 9 ints and 654 yds rushing.

 

Both may have been projects but AR is a much bigger and more difficult project. Cam took over games all by himself and dominated in college. AR looked good against Utah and then horrible when it really counted. Cam's AU was much better than AR's UF but still. Not remotely close as candidates.

  • Pie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

49 minutes ago, rebelrouser said:

Cam had66.1% completion percentage with 30 td's and 7 ints and 1473 yds rushing.

AR had 53.8% completion percentage with 17td's and 9 ints and 654 yds rushing.

 

Both may have been projects but AR is a much bigger and more difficult project. Cam took over games all by himself and dominated in college. AR looked good against Utah and then horrible when it really counted. Cam's AU was much better than AR's UF but still. Not remotely close as candidates.

Yeah, no doubt Cam was a much better college player.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, LinvilleGorge said:

This. I think a lot of people have forgotten because of how good he turned out to be right away that Cam was considered a project too.

That's true. But I think he was a lot further along in his development and ability than AR. People made a big deal about him only having one year starting experience in the NCAA, but I think that one year at Blinn also helped him a lot and he went undefeated there and at Auburn setting records. And he's pretty much the reason both programs went undefeated. 

Cam had more at the table in college and the pros than AR, but Cam was also 2 years older than AR is going into the draft. 

AR is green, but he's also incredibly young too. The video of him with Mooch in the QB room where he has to recollect a play exactly after a little conversation impressed the hell out of me. The guy has it clicking in his head and I think I  that regard I think he's more prepared for the pros than Cam was. 

  • Pie 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

55 minutes ago, rebelrouser said:

Cam had66.1% completion percentage with 30 td's and 7 ints and 1473 yds rushing.

AR had 53.8% completion percentage with 17td's and 9 ints and 654 yds rushing.

 

Both may have been projects but AR is a much bigger and more difficult project. Cam took over games all by himself and dominated in college. AR looked good against Utah and then horrible when it really counted. Cam's AU was much better than AR's UF but still. Not remotely close as candidates.

Cam was also older and more experienced. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share


  • PMH4OWPW7JD2TDGWZKTOYL2T3E.jpg

  • Topics

  • Posts

    • Exactly what I was going to say. Brady seems to be taking a page out of Olsen's playbook, which is probably a good thing. They'll probably get around to giving Brady an Emmy one day, and he should thank Olsen for giving him the blueprint for success.
    • In before: "XL sucks, there is no hope." "As long as we have Bryce, none of this matters." My response: "It's X, not XL...we're not discussing apparel sizes, or we'd have to consider XS."  
    • Alain Pierre provides some food for thought on Last Word On Sports regarding Xavier Legette, and his article, though specifically on X, kind of puts me in the mind of QBs being overdrafted and put into situations that they're not prepared for, some ultimately failing due to drafting missteps by front offices who don't necessarily view prospective players within the contextual importance that situations demand.  At this point, Legette looks like a failure in reference to expectations, of not only what a consistently productive NFL receiver looks like, but a first round pick (which he obviously should never have been). But the story on X isn't necessarily completely over. Damn. I seem to be experiencing deja vu...It wasn't X's fault that he was overdrafted, that was a choice by an FO that obviously downplayed actual realized skill vs outstanding measurables and upside. Sure, the FO was impressed by X's one-year feats during his senior season at South Carolina, but it was the NFL god, RAS (a.k.a. Raw Athletic Score), that had Dave Canales's and Dan Morgan's jaws dropping in amazement at the sight of X running around in underwear at the Combine...   "At 6-foot-3 and over 220 pounds, Legette brought rare athletic upside to the position. His breakout season at South Carolina showed flashes of dominance that NFL teams dream of. Projecting forward, many scouts compared his physical profile to D.K. Metcalf, and the Panthers clearly believed they could develop him into a true wide receiver 1 over time. The issue was never his talent. The issue was the timeline. Just a few picks later, the Chargers selected Ladd McConkey, a receiver who may have lacked Xavier Legette’s physical ceiling but entered the league far more technically refined. McConkey immediately showed advanced route discipline, leverage awareness, good pacing, and separation ability.  Bryce Young’s game has always depended on timing and anticipation. His best football at Alabama came with receivers capable of winning through precision rather than pure athleticism. Jameson Williams and John Metchie III were excellent route runners and were able to get drafted in 2022. McConkey naturally fit that style of play. Legette, meanwhile, needed significant development in the exact areas where Bryce Young needed help. The Panthers drafted traits when Bryce Young needed reliability."   Yes, the FO was guilty. The good thing is that the execs appear to be improving. Some of that may be attributed to the hiring of Eric Eager (who was hired right after the Xavier Legette draft). Eager seems to have helped the Panthers FO fine-tune their analytical progress, and, at least on paper, they acquired players with a lot of value during the last draft in regards to actually (what I'll refer to as) "underdrafting" talent relative to their position with value already built in.  Look at Chris Brazzell: He may be more of the quintessential project receiver who was arguably more or less just as raw as Legette was when he was drafted, and with a relatively high RAS as well. The notable difference is value, as Brazzell was a round three pick and Legette was a first rounder.    "Unlike the Xavier Legette situation, Carolina’s environment for Brazzell is completely different. "The Panthers are not asking a raw receiver prospect to stabilize this offense for Bryce Young. "Brazzell enters a much healthier developmental situation with far less pressure. With Tetairoa McMillan established as the primary target and Jalen Coker continuing to settle as the number 2 option...Xavier Legette, Metchie III, and Jimmy Horn Jr. are also still in this rotation, fighting for reps. "It gives Carolina something they failed to give Legette when they drafted him: A developmental runway. "Xavier Legette entered the league with expectations attached to a first-round pick and an offense desperate for answers. Brazzell enters a room where he can spend a year working on his route running, learning the playbook, and earning snaps gradually rather than being asked to become part of Bryce Young’s solution immediately. "And truthfully, Brazzell needs that time coming out of college. Despite his elite physical tools, many evaluators have several concerns about his overall polish as a receiver. "His route tree at Tennessee was viewed as fairly limited due to the type of offense that they run. The receivers are expected to run a lot of choice routes, which are dictated by the placement of the defenders. It doesn’t require technical route-running and an understanding of the playbook needed at the NFL level...   "Context changes significantly when expectations change. "The Panthers are not depending on Brazzell to save the offense. They can allow him to develop slowly, expand his route tree, improve his technical refinement, and learn behind a much more stable receiver room... "Traits become much easier to bet on when patience is built into the plan."   It's all about understanding your situation. I don't agree that it's an inherently difficult choice like the author is suggesting in the following excerpt. At the very least, I think that it should be easier as long as all parties involved stay levelheaded and true to their process.    "That is what makes these draft decisions so difficult. "Every front office believes it can find the next Metcalf, Owens, or Marshall. Sometimes they do. More often, they are betting on a development path that may take years to complete. "The challenge is understanding what your offense needs right now. "If a team has patience, stability, and a quarterback capable of carrying the offense while a receiver develops, betting on traits can make sense. But if a young quarterback needs immediate help, there is a strong argument for prioritizing the receiver who already knows how to separate, create throwing , and earn trust from day one. "That’s why the Xavier Legette-Ladd McConkey debate remains so fascinating. "It was never really a discussion about talent. It was a discussion about timing."   For me, Ladd McConkey was talented enough in his own right, that the gap--the upside--was never as big as people are suggesting between not only McConkey and Legette, but McConkey and other receivers drafted in the first round during that draft. The technique divide between Ladd and X was pretty stark though, as was the roughly 35 pounds, but the speed was identical, the maybe 1½ height difference isn't huge (6' and 6'1"), and it may surprise some that Ladd's RAS (9.34) was also enough to put him in the top 10 percent of receivers since 1987. There is an argument that he would've been a better pick for Bryce and the Panthers, regardless of timeline and talent. But, I still appreciate the thesis (if you will) of the article, as it still provides some hope--perhaps a glimmer at this point, that X's RAS may finally translate to the NFL given more time, but, perhaps more importantly, it explains how Dan Morgan and company are showing improvement, even if it appears somewhat understated. My hope is that continued improvement is palpable by this time next year. https://lastwordonsports.com/nfl/2026/05/30/xavier-legette-draft-lessons/#google_vignette        
×
×
  • Create New...