dErriCk BRoWn caN't RUsH thE qUarTeRbACk

[LinvilleGorge]

10 minutes ago, WarHeel said:

So does Hurney still suck? Been seeing a lot of praise for Burns, Chinn, Brown, etc. 

Not a Hurney apologist, just genuinely curious.

Honestly I think it points to the new staff having a lot more input. Hurney nailing a first rounder is nothing new. His downfall in the draft is what happens after the first round and with this new staff that suddenly wasn't an issue. 

[MHS831]

6 minutes ago, WarHeel said:

So does Hurney still suck? Been seeing a lot of praise for Burns, Chinn, Brown, etc. 

Not a Hurney apologist, just genuinely curious.

When you mention Burns as evidence of good GMing, you need to put an asterisk by his name, like this:

10.  Brian Burns*

*While Burns is materializing into a solid pick for the Panthers, it should be noted that Marty Hurney, of Everette Brown, Armanti Edwards, and Jimmy Clausen fame) attempted to trade up just 11 picks later for Greg Little.

Seriously--we had a good draft last year, but I have to believe that we were going to take Chinn (A Rhule-type player if I have ever seen one) with the second round pick.  When Gross-Matos dropped to us, we did not expect that and took him.  As Chinn stayed on the board, I can almost hear Rhule screaming in Marty's ear, "Go get him!!" According to the way the draft developed last year, I think Marty would have taken a CB there.

 

[TheCasillas]

32 minutes ago, MHS831 said:

When you mention Burns as evidence of good GMing, you need to put an asterisk by his name, like this:

10.  Brian Burns*

*While Burns is materializing into a solid pick for the Panthers, it should be noted that Marty Hurney, of Everette Brown, Armanti Edwards, and Jimmy Clausen fame) attempted to trade up just 11 picks later for Greg Little.

Seriously--we had a good draft last year, but I have to believe that we were going to take Chinn (A Rhule-type player if I have ever seen one) with the second round pick.  When Gross-Matos dropped to us, we did not expect that and took him.  As Chinn stayed on the board, I can almost hear Rhule screaming in Marty's ear, "Go get him!!" According to the way the draft developed last year, I think Marty would have taken a CB there.

 

In fairness, I think Marty has been looking for Chinn in every draft. This one finally hit. Gurney has been prett consistent on drafting hybrid players. 

[joemac]

Holy poo our D line is going to be amazing in the next couple of years. 

[MHS831]

57 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Honestly I think it points to the new staff having a lot more input. Hurney nailing a first rounder is nothing new. His downfall in the draft is what happens after the first round and with this new staff that suddenly wasn't an issue. 

Hurney leads the league in picking low-hanging fruit.  His success in round 1 is impressive, but he has overlooked key positions of need every year to take the pick that has the best chance of contributing.  Historically he has neglected DT (Brown was a safe, solid pick), DBs, and Offensive line.

I always go back to the draft when Marty was not interested in lame duck John Fox's input.  (Jimmy Clausen-he tried to move up from pick 48 to 33 to get him--a la Greg Little; Brandon Lafell--decent wr with small hands; Armanti Edwards-I read an article for Colt fans about how the Colts made Hurney think they wanted Edwards so he would take him, leaving the player they wanted Navarro Bowman on the board--who went to SF before Indy picked).  And then there was the fourth round pick, a 3-4 OLB for a 4-3 defense--Eric Norwood).  The draft demonstrates Marty's ineptitude for the following reasons:

1.  We did not have a first round pick because we traded it away in 2009 for Everette Brown.  It turned out to be the 17th overall selection in 2010.  Who could we have drafted with that pick?  OC Maurice Pouncey was on the board.  OT Bryan Bugala was on the board. Mike Iupati (G) was the Niner's pick.  All three linemen are still playing in the league a decade later.  So that was dumbass "save my job today by trading tomorrow's picks" move #1.

2. It was a terrible QB draft, and we needed a QB.  Bradford was #1 overall, and KC and Minnesota were desperate for QBs.  Both passed on Clausen---in the first and in the second rounds.  What did they know?  Something Marty did not.  Marty takes Clausen and is giddy about it--because he tried to move up to trade with the Rams with the #33 pick.  Had he pulled that trigger, speculation was that Marty was offering the 2011 first rounder--the first pick overall--the Cam Newton pick, for the right to move up from #48 to #33.  Marty was desperate-his job was on the line.  This is the same year (later) he overpaid for free agents to stay here (Johnson, Williams, etc).  He had already traded away #1 picks in 2008 to move up for Otah and again in 2009 to move up for Brown. 

3.  Third round: Once he got Clausen, he then took Brandon Lafell, a decent WR out of LSU with small hands that led to drops at times.  While he could have moved up for Golden Tate, he sat there and took Lafell.

4.  In the third round, Armanti Edwards was on the board, and Marty wanted him bad.  He traded the 2011 second rounder away to move up for Edwards.  That second rounder became the #33 overall pick---to move up for Armanti Edwards. Marty was pulling strings and making it happen.  I overheard Fox talking (loudly, perhaps on purpose) to another coach at camp in Spartanburg.  He was watching Armanti Edwards dropping punts from a jugs machine.  They he looked over at Clausen, and he said, "It would be nice if we drafted some NFL talent." or something to that effect.  He was angry, disgruntled, and knew he was gone after the season. 

The following year, because the Rams would not take the trade offer that turned out the be the #1 overall pick, the Panthers had the #1 overall pick.  There were 2 stud QBs in this draft--so thank God Marty did not trade away the pick.  One, however, had a father who was a former NFL player and astute businessman (Luck).  He reminded me of the time Archie Manning got involved when the Chargers took Eli.  At any rate, Luck knows the NFL front office and even though his son, Andrew Luck was going to be the first overall selection, he somewhat unexpectedly returned to Stanford.  That decision was made following the Pie Chart Presser, when Jerry Richardson scolded Gantt and hit on a female reporter--holding up a pie chart to show people the business side--and that he was 100% owner and crazy.  It is my opinion that Luck knew the Panthers would pick Andrew so he did not come out.

So the no-brainer pick that year was Cam Newton, the player Rivera wanted anyway.  Marty, according to articles at the time and conversations my friend had (off the record) with Brandon Beane, wanted Marcel Darius.  He was not ready to give up on Clausen and felt Darius was the better player.

That is Marty Hurney in action.  THAT is why he needs to get his ass out of the chair.  Yes, Burns was a solid pick, but I am not kidding-looking back, my final mock drafts are better. 

[electro's horse]

imagine brown with an offseason of NFL training and nutrition 

[WarHeel]

1 hour ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Honestly I think it points to the new staff having a lot more input. Hurney nailing a first rounder is nothing new. His downfall in the draft is what happens after the first round and with this new staff that suddenly wasn't an issue. 

Fair enough. He certainly has a knack for excellent first round picks. Won’t speak outside of that.

[AU-panther]

8 hours ago, tiger7_88 said:

So he is good at rushing the passer since he has 2 sacks in one game?

So what was he when he only had 2 sacks over 13 games?

You can't use one game to try and win a "I told you so argument"

On a side note, does that stat line mean that Tre Boston had a really good game?

 

Either way I don't understand people around.

Top 10 pick is playing as well or better than most other rookies.

I would hope so.

Playing well as a rookie isn't the same as playing well and a lot of people around here leave that part out or just don't understand the difference.  People around here tend to see what they want to about a player based on their views of that player going into the season.  People who wanted Brown as the pick are looking for anything to make themselves seem right, people who didn't want him are also looking for anything to make themselves seem right.  

Brown has struggled at times this year, especially early in the season, that is understandable as a rookie.  Admitting that doesn't mean you were wrong about drafting that player it means you are watching the entire tape and being objective..   Personally, I've actually been a little surprised that his pass rush has been better than his run defense this year.  

People need to learn to watch coaches tape and actually watch a player on every play, not just watch the ball or form opinions off of what announcer say.  So many people around here just see the splash plays, good and bad, and form their opinions off of that.  I can see one play or hear one comment from an announcer on Sunday and pretty much predict the opinions that will be floated around here on Monday.  A lot of people around here will create opinion off a players entire season off of just a handful of plays.

 

 

 

 

 

[Moo Daeng]

4 minutes ago, AU-panther said:

So he is good at rushing the passer since he has 2 sacks in one game?

So what was he when he only had 2 sacks over 13 games?

You can't use one game to try and win a "I told you so argument"

On a side note, does that stat line mean that Tre Boston had a really good game?

 

Either way I don't understand people around.

Top 10 pick is playing as well or better than most other rookies.

I would hope so.

Playing well as a rookie isn't the same as playing well and a lot of people around here leave that part out or just don't understand the difference.  People around here tend to see what they want to about a player based on their views of that player going into the season.  People who wanted Brown as the pick are looking for anything to make themselves seem right, people who didn't want him are also looking for anything to make themselves seem right.  

Brown has struggled at times this year, especially early in the season, that is understandable as a rookie.  Admitting that doesn't mean you were wrong about drafting that player it means you are watching the entire tape and being objective..   Personally, I've actually been a little surprised that his pass rush has been better than his run defense this year.  

People need to learn to watch coaches tape and actually watch a player on every play, not just watch the ball or form opinions off of what announcer say.  So many people around here just see the splash plays, good and bad, and form their opinions off of that.  I can see one play or hear one comment from an announcer on Sunday and pretty much predict the opinions that will be floated around here on Monday.  A lot of people around here will create opinion off a players entire season off of just a handful of plays.

 

 

 

 

 

He had a 2 sack game. Just smile for a moment about that.

[Growl]

29 minutes ago, MHS831 said:

Hurney leads the league in picking low-hanging fruit.  His success in round 1 is impressive, but he has overlooked key positions of need every year to take the pick that has the best chance of contributing.  Historically he has neglected DT (Brown was a safe, solid pick), DBs, and Offensive line.

I always go back to the draft when Marty was not interested in lame duck John Fox's input.  (Jimmy Clausen-he tried to move up from pick 48 to 33 to get him--a la Greg Little; Brandon Lafell--decent wr with small hands; Armanti Edwards-I read an article for Colt fans about how the Colts made Hurney think they wanted Edwards so he would take him, leaving the player they wanted Navarro Bowman on the board--who went to SF before Indy picked).  And then there was the fourth round pick, a 3-4 OLB for a 4-3 defense--Eric Norwood).  The draft demonstrates Marty's ineptitude for the following reasons:

1.  We did not have a first round pick because we traded it away in 2009 for Everette Brown.  It turned out to be the 17th overall selection in 2010.  Who could we have drafted with that pick?  OC Maurice Pouncey was on the board.  OT Bryan Bugala was on the board. Mike Iupati (G) was the Niner's pick.  All three linemen are still playing in the league a decade later.  So that was dumbass "save my job today by trading tomorrow's picks" move #1.

2. It was a terrible QB draft, and we needed a QB.  Bradford was #1 overall, and KC and Minnesota were desperate for QBs.  Both passed on Clausen---in the first and in the second rounds.  What did they know?  Something Marty did not.  Marty takes Clausen and is giddy about it--because he tried to move up to trade with the Rams with the #33 pick.  Had he pulled that trigger, speculation was that Marty was offering the 2011 first rounder--the first pick overall--the Cam Newton pick, for the right to move up from #48 to #33.  Marty was desperate-his job was on the line.  This is the same year (later) he overpaid for free agents to stay here (Johnson, Williams, etc).  He had already traded away #1 picks in 2008 to move up for Otah and again in 2009 to move up for Brown. 

3.  Third round: Once he got Clausen, he then took Brandon Lafell, a decent WR out of LSU with small hands that led to drops at times.  While he could have moved up for Golden Tate, he sat there and took Lafell.

4.  In the third round, Armanti Edwards was on the board, and Marty wanted him bad.  He traded the 2011 second rounder away to move up for Edwards.  That second rounder became the #33 overall pick---to move up for Armanti Edwards. Marty was pulling strings and making it happen.  I overheard Fox talking (loudly, perhaps on purpose) to another coach at camp in Spartanburg.  He was watching Armanti Edwards dropping punts from a jugs machine.  They he looked over at Clausen, and he said, "It would be nice if we drafted some NFL talent." or something to that effect.  He was angry, disgruntled, and knew he was gone after the season. 

The following year, because the Rams would not take the trade offer that turned out the be the #1 overall pick, the Panthers had the #1 overall pick.  There were 2 stud QBs in this draft--so thank God Marty did not trade away the pick.  One, however, had a father who was a former NFL player and astute businessman (Luck).  He reminded me of the time Archie Manning got involved when the Chargers took Eli.  At any rate, Luck knows the NFL front office and even though his son, Andrew Luck was going to be the first overall selection, he somewhat unexpectedly returned to Stanford.  That decision was made following the Pie Chart Presser, when Jerry Richardson scolded Gantt and hit on a female reporter--holding up a pie chart to show people the business side--and that he was 100% owner and crazy.  It is my opinion that Luck knew the Panthers would pick Andrew so he did not come out.

So the no-brainer pick that year was Cam Newton, the player Rivera wanted anyway.  Marty, according to articles at the time and conversations my friend had (off the record) with Brandon Beane, wanted Marcel Darius.  He was not ready to give up on Clausen and felt Darius was the better player.

That is Marty Hurney in action.  THAT is why he needs to get his ass out of the chair.  Yes, Burns was a solid pick, but I am not kidding-looking back, my final mock drafts are better. 

Marty hurney never offered a future 1st for Clausen, he stated as much when the pick happened, the team in question tried and he said no

[pantherj]

2 hours ago, ncfan said:

 

This play right here reminds me of him at Auburn

This play is an example of Brown cheating to get a sack.

[ForJimmy]

People kept telling the doubters he leads rookies in pressures and sacks will come. So now gets gets the sacks and we get the whole, it’s just one game response.

I’ll go ahead and tell you how this will unfold. If Brown doesn’t get a sack next game it’s the “see it was just one game we drafted him too high” response. If he does it’s “it’s just a couple games, why couldn’t he play like this earlier” response. Then they will get quiet and hope other people forget it he has a great second year. 

[electro's horse]

3 minutes ago, pantherj said:

This play is an example of Brown cheating to get a sack.

i do like rodgers bitching at the end, and i bet he's claiming that brown didn't do EVERYTHING IN HIS POWER to not fall on him at all

[Car123]

1 hour ago, MHS831 said:

When you mention Burns as evidence of good GMing, you need to put an asterisk by his name, like this:

10.  Brian Burns*

*While Burns is materializing into a solid pick for the Panthers, it should be noted that Marty Hurney, of Everette Brown, Armanti Edwards, and Jimmy Clausen fame) attempted to trade up just 11 picks later for Greg Little.

Seriously--we had a good draft last year, but I have to believe that we were going to take Chinn (A Rhule-type player if I have ever seen one) with the second round pick.  When Gross-Matos dropped to us, we did not expect that and took him.  As Chinn stayed on the board, I can almost hear Rhule screaming in Marty's ear, "Go get him!!" According to the way the draft developed last year, I think Marty would have taken a CB there.

 

Hurney loved Chinn since the senior bowl...