What we need to see from Sammy D in OTAs

[NanuqoftheNorth]

12 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

So what you are saying is if Darnold fails here, it is because we are a dumpster fire of a franchise and not that he is a bust?

Did I say that?  I don't think I said that.

The point I was attempting to make was that even great QB's require capable teammates to succeed in the NFL. 

Yes, there are also plenty of QB's that haven't made it at the professional level.  SD's future is YTBD, but writing him off based on his performance with the NY Jets would be a mistake IMHO.  

[pantherclaw]

1 hour ago, kungfoodude said:

I can't help you understand what is likely to transpire here. You are just going to have to see for yourself. 

At least you're consistent. 

[DaveThePanther2008]

10 hours ago, kungfoodude said:

I don't care how many excuses are thrown out there. It doesn't change what I am saying. If he doesn't get it together after his first season here, there is zero hope of him ever being anything. It doesn't matter that he started on a dumpster fire of a franchise in NY and it doesn't matter if his next stop was another very bad franchise in our team. Eventually you just have to produce as a player. 

None of these elite QB's have an NFL career of only star studded rosters and perfect situations. Everyone has challenges in the NFL. It's on the player to make the best of those situations. Floundering in one bad scenario to the next says you are at your very best a backup QB and not capable of being a consistent NFL starter.

I'm onboard with this.  He's had 3 seasons under his belt.  Regardless of age he should know what's out there.  IMO his age was only a factor in bringing him here.  Young with some experience.

We're going to know, just like we knew with Teddy, after one season whether he has the tools, the confidence and leadership to run this team for the next 10+ years.

There won't be much of a difference between Darnold and Teddy if Darnold continually loses games over pour decisions.   Poor decision = inability to make all throws. 

I'm still hanging my hat that he will succeed here but you make a great point. 

[SmittysLawnGuy]

7 hours ago, glenwo2 said:

It's still not your money, though.    But you do you, I guess.  *shrugs*

Ever heard of a salary cap? Also a lot of us pay good coin towards the product that they waltz out there. So in essence, damn right it's our money.

[Kentucky Panther]

I am more than happy with Darnold as our guy as opposed to Teddy. I think he could end up being great for us. 
 

That said, it will be easy to point the finger at our staff if Fields is lighting it up and Darnold is struggling. Whether it’s fair or not. 
 

Hopefully we don’t have to worry about it. 

[BrianS]

Setting aside the obvious, which is waiting for the season to play out, the question you need to ask right now is "Do you believe the Panthers overall offensive personnel, outside the QB room, is average or better?"  Let's examine that.

Start with the WR's.  I honestly believe our WR room is one of the best in the league.  DJ and Robby left no doubts last year.  It was very clear that their production was held down by the limitations at QB.  The scary part is they were already a top 5 WR duo.  Marshall should easily replace Samuel's production in the slot, if not more.

Our TE room is still not great, but I'm also not sure that Joe Brady's offense really requires it.  In an LSU offense with 400 receptions, their TE's only caught about 60 balls all year.  I just don't think it's as important.  Still, I believe we've improved that room this offseason.  I would call them average.  Certainly not high end, but average.

Our RB room is great.  Setting aside the question of workload balance, you have Christian McCaffrey.  He is one of the best in the league, if not THE best.  Blah blah health issues, workload.  I GET IT.  We drafted a guy who seems to fit, and we have a couple on the roster who have done alright when called on.  All that said, you have to say our RB room is top 5.

Our OL is probably still average.  Make no mistake, it was average last year.  Pretty sure we wound up 18th overall.  If we've improved, we could be 11 to 13 this year.  That's an above average room.  No, not top 5, probably not quite top 10, but not cringe worthy either.  Solid, but not spectacular.

Put all that together, and what do you have?

You have a Panthers offense that is poised to be easily a top 10 offense, and probably a bit more, maybe even a top 5 offense.  WITHOUT considering the QB position.  Which leads us to Sam Darnold.

He doesn't have any excuses this year.  None.  He can't.  He's got NFL experience, so he understands the speed of the game and what is expected.  He has a team around him with the talent to go places.  BIG places.  If you really want to understand, flip the script.

If you drop Aaron Rodgers, Russell Wilson, Tom Brady, Patrick Mahomes, Kyler Murray, Justin Herbert . . . into this offense, how does it fare?  Forget salary concerns, just look at the talent.  Even guys who are "just" good QB's like Tannehill or Carr . . . come on man.  This offense is easily top 5.

So that's really what Darnold is up against.  No excuses.  The talent is there.  He simply has to play like a real NFL QB.  Sam has to produce.

 

 

[NAS]

19 hours ago, OldhamA said:

I love that people think that now he's out of the 'pressure cooker' of the NY market he'll have more space to breathe.

Half the fan base is ready to jump down his throat the first time he throws an INT because he's not the particular brand of 2021 rookie that they tied their colours to. 

He knows this is his make or break year if he wants to be a starting NFL QB.

THIS.  Everyone talking about how Sam just needs to be himself but putting all the pressure on him

 

19 hours ago, CarolinaLivin said:

Everything rests on Sam Darnold.

 

 

[trueblade]

6 minutes ago, BrianS said:

Our TE room is still not great, but I'm also not sure that Joe Brady's offense really requires it.  In an LSU offense with 400 receptions, their TE's only caught about 60 balls all year.  I just don't think it's as important.  Still, I believe we've improved that room this offseason.  I would call them average.  Certainly not high end, but average.

I think you're going to be pleasantly surprised by how good Dan Arnold is.

[NAS]

6 minutes ago, BrianS said:

Setting aside the obvious, which is waiting for the season to play out, the question you need to ask right now is "Do you believe the Panthers overall offensive personnel, outside the QB room, is average or better?"  Let's examine that.

Start with the WR's.  I honestly believe our WR room is one of the best in the league.  DJ and Robby left no doubts last year.  It was very clear that their production was held down by the limitations at QB.  The scary part is they were already a top 5 WR duo.  Marshall should easily replace Samuel's production in the slot, if not more.

Our TE room is still not great, but I'm also not sure that Joe Brady's offense really requires it.  In an LSU offense with 400 receptions, their TE's only caught about 60 balls all year.  I just don't think it's as important.  Still, I believe we've improved that room this offseason.  I would call them average.  Certainly not high end, but average.

Our RB room is great.  Setting aside the question of workload balance, you have Christian McCaffrey.  He is one of the best in the league, if not THE best.  Blah blah health issues, workload.  I GET IT.  We drafted a guy who seems to fit, and we have a couple on the roster who have done alright when called on.  All that said, you have to say our RB room is top 5.

Our OL is probably still average.  Make no mistake, it was average last year.  Pretty sure we wound up 18th overall.  If we've improved, we could be 11 to 13 this year.  That's an above average room.  No, not top 5, probably not quite top 10, but not cringe worthy either.  Solid, but not spectacular.

Put all that together, and what do you have?

You have a Panthers offense that is poised to be easily a top 10 offense, and probably a bit more, maybe even a top 5 offense.  WITHOUT considering the QB position.  Which leads us to Sam Darnold.

He doesn't have any excuses this year.  None.  He can't.  He's got NFL experience, so he understands the speed of the game and what is expected.  He has a team around him with the talent to go places.  BIG places.  If you really want to understand, flip the script.

If you drop Aaron Rodgers, Russell Wilson, Tom Brady, Patrick Mahomes, Kyler Murray, Justin Herbert . . . into this offense, how does it fare?  Forget salary concerns, just look at the talent.  Even guys who are "just" good QB's like Tannehill or Carr . . . come on man.  This offense is easily top 5.

So that's really what Darnold is up against.  No excuses.  The talent is there.  He simply has to play like a real NFL QB.  Sam has to produce.

 

 

TOP 5?   Come on, you're punishing this coaching staff because they offensively exceeded expectations last year by putting even crazier expectations on them in just their second year of the rebuild.  I'll be happy if we have a top 15 offense. 

[CarolinaLivin]

7 minutes ago, NAS said:

THIS.  Everyone talking about how Sam just needs to be himself but putting all the pressure on him

 

 

The pressure will be there regardless.

1. because its the QB position.

2. because of this being a "prove it" season no matter how you look at it. 

3. because now there's pressure on the coaching staff who may or may not know how to evaluate a QB

Buttttt... the Panthers organization has done a great job of building confidence in him. They 100% believe in him (until they don't, saw that with teddy). Also, we aren't a big market team even if the media always does what they can to make a story, but being in Carolina won't include having the spotlight on Sam 24/7 (like NY) 

Edited May 25, 2021 by CarolinaLivin

[rayzor]

Been thinking a lot about this, but the one thing I want to see is him stepping into the leadership role here. He needs to make this his team...his offense, and the rest of the team needs to start looking at him as a leader right away.

[BrianS]

32 minutes ago, NAS said:

TOP 5?   Come on, you're punishing this coaching staff because they offensively exceeded expectations last year by putting even crazier expectations on them in just their second year of the rebuild.  I'll be happy if we have a top 15 offense. 

How did they exceed expectations?  They regressed!  In 2019 we ranked 19th in total yards, and 20th in total points.  In 2020, we ranked 22nd in total yards and 24th in total points!  To me, we *massively* underachieved on offense.  Remember, 2019 was Kyle Allen at QB.

I hate to say it, but I think we would have won more games last year with KA under center.

I'm so tired of the excuses man.  We have "offensive guru" Joe Brady running the show here.  We have amazing talent at all the the skill positions except TE - which may not even matter in this offense.  We have a line that grades out average or better.

Take away the QB!  Who has a better offense than we do?  KC, I'll give you, they were great with Alex Smith and terrifying with Mahomes.  Titans, Bucs, Vikings . . . maybe.  But past that it's QB's making the difference.

Not expecting production from this offense is another year of "missed opportunities" man, and I don't think I can stomach that.  Sam has nothing standing in the way of him showing us he is a franchise guy.  He either shows he's the guy, or he doesn't.  There is no alternative.

Bear in mind, KC tossed away a guy who was 50-26, with a 3:1 TD to INT ratio because he wasn't good enough.  I'm not saying Sam needs to be that, but it sure wouldn't hurt.

[Moo Daeng]

I believe an important key is Darnold and Brady being on the same wavelength. Their communication might be what makes or breaks this situation 

[kungfoodude]

8 hours ago, NanuqoftheNorth said:

Did I say that?  I don't think I said that.

The point I was attempting to make was that even great QB's require capable teammates to succeed in the NFL. 

Yes, there are also plenty of QB's that haven't made it at the professional level.  SD's future is YTBD, but writing him off based on his performance with the NY Jets would be a mistake IMHO.  

You sort of did. I will say that some of the guys considered "great" QB's definitely benefitted from the situations they were in, like a Terry Bradshaw. I think that was a little true more in the pre-free agency era where keeping a dynasty was much easier.