The notion of building the defense first is a flawed concept rooted in nostalgia.

[FuFuLamePoo]

I was listening to some podcast a few days ago and they were talking about how the Bengals have put all their draft resources into the offense and have just decided they'll figure out the defense later. It made me realize we've done the opposite and us and the Bengals are in totally different positions right now. Obviously they got a #1 overall pick in a draft with a strong QB1 (Burrow) but still. They've also accompanied Burrow with Tee Higgins, Jackson Carman, Jamaar Chase, etc. The Bengals are currently must see TV every week whereas I want to pour bleach into my eyes when watching our team right now.

Please. Whenever we move past Rhule who I've already dubbed a failure, I truly see no path he has out of this, rebuild the team the right way next time. Having hard ons for 80's style of football just isn't worth it. Build your offense like Cincinnati did and you'll find yourself in considerably better shape.

[Catsfan69]

Yeah that's why the Patriots could win only throwing 3 passes 

If the other team doesn't score you can't lose.

[OneBadCat]

I don't think our draft choices were the big problem. In fact I think going all in one side of the ball in a draft can pay off because you end up developing a unit of the team that becomes dominant and masks a lot of the flaws elsewhere. I don't think our selections are necessarily the problem at this point.

Guys that looked good last year look bad now. The defense was on fire at the start of the season and they now they are getting pushed around. Just seems like a coaching and motivation issue.

That said we have clearly ignored the offensive line so I'm not justifying that, but we've been ignoring o-line since 2015 honestly.

Edited December 12, 2021 by OneBadCat

[BlitzMonster]

The first thing for a team to build is a good OL.  That's because the OL protects the team's most valuable  asset, the QB.  

After that, it's probably a good idea to go with the best talent the draft offers you.  Take a top rated defensive player over the 6th WR.   Position need factors in a little bit as well but it shouldn't grossly supersede the highest rated players on your board.  

Over time taking what the draft gives you will result in the best overall and most competitive team.   But this strategy requires patience by the ownership and fan base, which most NFL teams don't have.  

Edited December 12, 2021 by BlitzMonster

[onmyown]

A defense is the number one common denominator in modern SB winners. The difference between football then and now is being able to build a creative, adaptive, and exploitive offense due to rules changes and athletes now days.

That basically means don’t run it all the time and find a QB above a game manager, however being a game manager is also very important, especially deep playoffs. That doesn’t mean focus mainly on offense. It’s a philosophy and who you draft change. There always needs to be balance.

Remember, great QB play is only the 3rd common factor in SB winners. The defense, it’s the number 1 commonality. Number 2? Oline.

How you build your team doesn’t matter so long as it gets built. The problem isn’t Rhule wanted to build a defense first. The problem is he did it while ignoring the offense, specifically the oline. There was no balance. There is a big difference.

The Bengals defense are quite good, despite how they built their team. So you’d need to consider the base from which they started building. That includes coaching.

Edited December 12, 2021 by onmyown

[Khyber53]

You start with the lines, picking the best available lineman (offensive or defensive) as your picks come across. Then you work your way out from the lines -- QB, MLB, RB, OLB, WR, DB, S, TE, K, P.

That's kind of a multi-year deal, but unless a unicorn falls to you, you get solid value for building the o and d lines. No matter what the situation, those two pay off in spades. And you can't win crap without either.

 

[Waldo]

A team needs to be balanced, which is the easy way of saying they need to be good on both sides. 2015 was built on a good D and a good O. If a team can only thrive on one side then it looks like being a playoff stepping stone for other teams is your ceiling that year.

I still believe in building around the lines, have an understanding of positional value vs the cap and finding a way to get the most out of the players you have for good or bad. I don't think this crew is very good with any of those things tho. 

 

 

[4Corners]

[PhillyB]

41 minutes ago, Catsfan69 said:

Yeah that's why the Patriots could win only throwing 3 passes 

If the other team doesn't score you can't lose.

this is a losing philosophy because the nfl has evolved to make this far harder to do than scoring bazillions of points. only dinosaurs and flukes disagree 

[NanuqoftheNorth]

7 minutes ago, Waldo said:

I still believe in building around the lines, have an understanding of positional value vs the cap and finding a way to get the most out of the players you have for good or bad. I don't think this crew is very good with any of those things tho.

The problem in a nutshell.

[PNW_PantherMan]

It's not wrong to build the defense first, but the problem is we can't stop the run.  Both Fox and Rivera built defenses that were more conservative, but able to stop the run.  You have to be able to stop the run to win a lot of close games.

Our defense now is built to get after the QB.  If we had an offense that could put up points, and teams were having to throw all game, it would probably work a lot better.

[Asaria]

There's nothing wrong with having an amazing Defense with an average offense(See the Patriots) In fact, I'd argue that an amazing Defense with an average offense has a much better chance of winning the Super Bowl(Sure the Bengals may be fun, but the Patriots would completely shut them down)

The issue is what somebody else on this thread mentioned, the coaching isn't working. We clearly have talent on BOTH sides of the ball, yet we're getting blown out by the most average of teams. Is it Darnolds fault? Is it Cams? Was it Joe Bradys? I have no idea, but when you blame 3 different guys(Darnold first, then Brady, then kinda Cam) you eventually have to go straight to the top with Rhule.

 

[Davidson Deac II]

There are three teams I would never want to model my team/process after.  The Lions, the Browns, and the Bengals.  All three have spent the last 20 years showing how its not done.  

[BlitzMonster]

24 minutes ago, Davidson Deac II said:

There are three teams I would never want to model my team/process after.  The Lions, the Browns, and the Bengals.  All three have spent the last 20 years showing how its not done.  

I'd say the Lions, Browns Washington and Jets.  All four are just chaotic organizations from the owner on down.  

Not surprisingly, these teams are also among the worst at W/L since 2000.