Saints Sign Derek Carr to 4 year deal.

[Seltzer]

5 minutes ago, Sgt Schultz said:

One of the reasons the other 31 teams aren't following this model is that it has produced one Owl and two NFCC appearances in the last 13 seasons.  It is just too many gyrations, too much risk, and too many variables that are out of their control for too little payoff. 

The Rams and Bucs have as many Owls in that time, and the Rams more Owl appearances by only pushing all their chips to the center of the table once. 

This 100%.  Again, it's astounding to me that Gayle Benson doesn't have someone independent of Saints management advising her on this.  It's one thing to basically turn over the reins to Sean Payton when you have a first ballot hall of famer in Brees and let them run things unimpeded (although you can easily make the case the Saints would have been better to have had some more checks and balances on the personnel side).

But even Sean knew the gig was up.  Doubling down (and at an even higher level these past 2 years) is financial malfeasance rarely seen by a professional organization.  Mickey Loomis was not a good GM before Brees/Payton, and he certainly isn't one now.  But being a patsy to Sean Payton while you have Brees is one thing.  Allowing that same dynamic with a retread like Dennis Allen is a recipe for setting your franchise back half a decade.

Even someone who made as many questionable personnel decisions as Marty Hurney must be alarmed at this level of ineptitude.  This is the type of move that really will lead Aints fans back to understanding that the Payton/Brees era was the aberration.  This is who their franchise truly is.  Incompetence personified.  They may even want to replace the paper bags with plastic this time to escape this misery.

I hope Gayle Benson and Mickey Loomis run this team the rest of my life.

[Evil Hurney]

1 hour ago, Seltzer said:

I'll give credit to Dennis Allen for trying to buy some job security.  He was the only one who was willing to clean up Sean Payton's mess, and it will be even harder to find someone to clean up the bigger mess he is going to leave.

This deal says to me that DA has 2 years to win. If not he and Carr are out while they blow things up. Just in time to tank for Arch Manning

Edited March 6, 2023 by Evil Hurney

[Seltzer]

2 minutes ago, Evil Hurney said:

This deal says to me that DA has 2 years to win. If not he and Carr are out while they blow things up.

Who are you going to bring in to clean up that inevitable mess, though?  The Saints cap is not going to be in any better shape 2 years from now than it is today.  That's the thing I can't comprehend.

Payton left b/c he saw the writing on the wall, but then somehow the Loomis/Allen braintrust convinced Gayle Benson that doubling down (even more) was the way to go.

The Saints 2 years from now, unless something massively unforeseen happens, will be in the worst shape of any franchise in the league.  Paper bag bad again.

This is a good day as a Panthers fan.  I had just gotten use to the Saints being a competent franchise.  Glad to be returning to the normal equilibrium of the Saints being a poverty franchise again.

[WUnderhill]

2 hours ago, CPcavedweller said:

Wait, so lower demand equals a higher price? That is not how supply-demand work at all. The less suitors, the less expensive it becomes to trade up, period. They aren't going to hold onto it out of spite. 

That was exactly my point. The Saints weren’t a suitor, so him signing immediately with the Saints was a bad thing for the Panthers. While Carr was available, the Bears risked losing suitors the longer they held onto the pick.

[WhoKnows]

4 hours ago, 45catfan said:

We are signing a veteran QB, I doubt any of the rookies would be starting for us, at least not the first portion of the season.  Frank knows the first year development for a rookie QB is a monumental task, and we have a decent enough roster not to piss away winnable games while said rookie still has his training wheels firmly attached.

If we have to sign a vet because a QB we take top 10 is not ready to start, that would be disappointing. A vet like Brissett doesn’t make us a contender, play the rookie. 

[Evil Hurney]

Looks like Spotrac has the deets:

What the contract could look like with maximum restructuring.

• [2023] $7.2M cap charge
• [2024] $13.2M cap charge after converting salary to bonus (as is the way for the Saints)
• [2025] $33.2M cap charge with another salary to bonus restructure (assuming 2024 restructure)
• [2026] $48.2M cap charge with another salary to bonus restructure (assuming 2024 & 2025 restructure)
• [2027 UFA]  $48.2M dead money

If cut in March 2025, $49.6M dead money (assuming 2024 restructure). I don't think this can be split.

If cut in 2026, $46.4M dead money (assuming 2024 & 2025 restructure). This can be split over 2 years if designated as post June.

Edited March 6, 2023 by Evil Hurney

[Jackie Lee]

11 minutes ago, Evil Hurney said:

Looks like Spotrac has the deets:

What the contract could look like with maximum restructuring.

• [2023] $7.2M cap charge
• [2024] $13.2M cap charge after converting salary to bonus (as is the way for the Saints)
• [2025] $33.2M cap charge with another salary to bonus restructure (assuming 2024 restructure)
• [2026] $48.2M cap charge with another salary to bonus restructure (assuming 2024 & 2025 restructure)
• [2027 UFA]  $48.2M dead money

If cut in March 2025, $49.6M dead money (assuming 2024 restructure). I don't think this can be split.

If cut in 2026, $46.4M dead money (assuming 2024 & 2025 restructure). This can be split over 2 years if designated as post June.

OTC basically has it as a 2 year $60M guaranteed deal, if they cut him in 2025 they'll owe $5.7M dead cap for 3 years which isn't horrible

Year	Age	Base Salary	Prorated Bonus	Roster Bonus		Guaranteed Salary		Cap Number	Cap %		Dead Money & Cap Savings Cut (pre-June 1)Cut (post-June 1)Trade (pre-June 1)Trade (post-June 1)RestructureExtension
Total		$111,500,000	$28,500,000	$10,000,000		$31,500,000		$150,000,000
2023	32	$1,500,000	$5,700,000	$0		$1,500,000		$7,200,000	3.2%		$37,200,000	($30,000,000)
2024	33	$30,000,000	$5,700,000	$0		$30,000,000		$35,700,000	13.9%		$35,700,000	$0
2025	34	$30,000,000	$5,700,000	$10,000,000		$0		$45,700,000	16.2%		$5,700,000	$40,000,000
2026	35	$50,000,000	$5,700,000	$0		$0		$55,700,000	18.1%		$5,700,000	$50,000,000
2027	36	Void	$5,700,000	Void		Void		$5,700,000	--		$5,700,000	$0

[Evil Hurney]

Just now, Jackie Lee said:

OTC basically has it as a 2 year $60M guaranteed deal, if they cut him in 2025 they'll owe $5.7M dead cap for 3 years which isn't horrible

Year	Age	Base Salary	Prorated Bonus	Roster Bonus		Guaranteed Salary		Cap Number	Cap %		Dead Money & Cap Savings Cut (pre-June 1)Cut (post-June 1)Trade (pre-June 1)Trade (post-June 1)RestructureExtension
Total		$111,500,000	$28,500,000	$10,000,000		$31,500,000		$150,000,000
2023	32	$1,500,000	$5,700,000	$0		$1,500,000		$7,200,000	3.2%		$37,200,000	($30,000,000)
2024	33	$30,000,000	$5,700,000	$0		$30,000,000		$35,700,000	13.9%		$35,700,000	$0
2025	34	$30,000,000	$5,700,000	$10,000,000		$0		$45,700,000	16.2%		$5,700,000	$40,000,000
2026	35	$50,000,000	$5,700,000	$0		$0		$55,700,000	18.1%		$5,700,000	$50,000,000
2027	36	Void	$5,700,000	Void		Void		$5,700,000	--		$5,700,000	$0

Dead cap accelerates. All $17.1M ($5.7M x 3) goes on the cap once cut. There would also be the other $10M GTD since he would have been on the roster in 2024.

If they don't restructure (unlikely), it's a dead cap of $27.1M to cut him in March 2025.

[Day1PanthersFan]

7 hours ago, blackcat said:

Good, we don't need another reclamation project.

Funny saying that since our coach is also a reclamation project 

[CPantherKing]

25 minutes ago, CarolinaRideorDie said:

I don't think Carr is a terrible QB, I just don't think he has enough to get a team to the supberowl. Analytics and stats are great to go off of, but there are the "intangibles" that's not accounted for. Kirk, Rodgers, and Dak have some great stats, etc, but why do they perennial drop out of the playoffs? 

I understand. Most people think SB winning QBs are seasonsed playoff QBs with a reputation for winning. Unfortunately, this is not true. Those QBs are dynasty QBs. Look at the playoff record of any QB winning their first SB.

This century (excluding QBs drafted by their SB winning coach): Dilfer 1-1 (28), Johnson 1-3 (34), P.Manning 3-6/11-13 (30/39), Brees 1-2 (30), Rodgers 0-1 (27), Foles 0-1 (28), Brady 30-11 (43), and Stafford 0-3 (33). Average age 32/33.

Going back to the 80s, Jim Plunkett was a bust 1st round pick. He was a reserve for the Raiders for 2 years and then won his 1st of 2 SBs at the age of 33 while never seeing the playoffs. Fran Tarkenton never saw the playoffs until he was 33 after being sent packing by the Vikings and then sent back to the Vikings when the Giants gave up on him. He never won the SB, but he went to 3 SBs over 4 seasons (6-4 playoff record).

This has been consistent for QBs among every decade of the SB era.

It's the coaches that we want to have the playoff wins under their belt and been to championships.

[mrcompletely11]

Just now, CPantherKing said:

I understand. Most people think SB winning QBs are seasonsed playoff QBs with a reputation for winning. Unfortunately, this is not true. Those QBs are dynasty QBs. Look at the playoff record of any QB winning their first SB.

This century (excluding QBs drafted by their SB winning coach): Dilfer 1-1 (28), Johnson 1-3 (34), P.Manning 3-6/11-13 (30/39), Brees 1-2 (30), Rodgers 0-1 (27), Foles 0-1 (28), Brady 30-11 (43), and Stafford 0-3 (33). Average age 32/33.

Going back to the 80s, Jim Plunkett was a bust 1st round pick. He was a reserve for the Raiders for 2 years and then won his 1st of 2 SBs at the age of 33 while never seeing the playoffs. Fran Tarkenton never saw the playoffs until he was 33 after being sent packing by the Vikings and then sent back to the Vikings when the Giants gave up on him. He never won the SB, but he went to 3 SBs over 4 seasons (6-4 playoff record).

This has been consistent for QBs among every decade of the SB era.

It's the coaches that we want to have the playoff wins under their belt and been to championships.

two words

 

aqueel glass

 

he can lead us out of the darkness

[GRWatcher]

 

5 hours ago, WhoKnows said:

Problem is we didn’t trade Burns and we have the 9th pick. We’re aren’t in the best spot to own our destiny so to speak. I like the coaching staff a lot but there are no guarantees and Carr to the Saints may make us impulsive.

I don't see Fitts or Reich as the impulsive kind. I think they're more the pragmatic planning type, considering all possible outcomes. Playing chess. I'm not worried about impulse.

Now if it was former-coach-not-to-be-named and Hurney, then I'd worry big time.

[L-TownCat]

And the Saints take the early lead.

[Chief Keek]

Dodged that one