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Talent Problem


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This issue isn’t a coaching issue, it’s a talent issue. As I’ve tried to say before, but was poo on or had a my post locked. We panicked and traded away our franchise for a hope and a dream. Bryce can’t win this on his own. We have set him up for failure. We have next to no talent around him, and we are seeing the results of this. We should have built some talent and depth and drafted QB in 24 or 25… anybody want to tell me this years (24) QB draft class isn’t as good as the (23) class? 

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My biggest concern is that the talent problem might start at QB. Outside of creating a Dolphins type situation with elite weapons everywhere and a great OL I'm just not sure Bryce has the physical tools to be successful at this level. And it's hard to build that type of surrounding talent after giving up all that capital in a trade.

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There’s no top end athlete in this class like Richardson and I think if any of the 24 rookies played as well as Stroud through two weeks the team who gets him would be static. 
 

That being said, Caleb Williams looks like a Patrick Mahomes in college. Mobile enough to make plays and extend plays and has arm power and accuracy. But if we don’t play Bryce we probably start a vet QB who gets us enough wins to not get a top pick once again. 
 

The only thing that stings though is we could potentially trade away Caleb Williams plus DJ Moore for Bryce. 

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2 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

My biggest concern is that the talent problem might start at QB. Outside of creating a Dolphins type situation with elite weapons everywhere and a great OL I'm just not sure Bryce has the physical tools to be successful at this level. And it's hard to build that type of surrounding talent after giving up all that capital in a trade.

Yep this 

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7 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

My biggest concern is that the talent problem might start at QB. Outside of creating a Dolphins type situation with elite weapons everywhere and a great OL I'm just not sure Bryce has the physical tools to be successful at this level. And it's hard to build that type of surrounding talent after giving up all that capital in a trade.

It’s going to be real hard for you to walk back this Bryce hate LG. 

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32 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Where's the "hate"? The guy is very physically limited at the NFL level and it's concerning. It doesn't mean he'll be a bust but it does mean there is a lot less room for error building a team around him.

Hate/haters/hating/etc in this context is just the stupidest term out there right now. Nothing you said was anything other than straight observation, and it's an unfortunately-predictable citcumstance the team is in at the moment.

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1 hour ago, LinvilleGorge said:

My biggest concern is that the talent problem might start at QB. Outside of creating a Dolphins type situation with elite weapons everywhere and a great OL I'm just not sure Bryce has the physical tools to be successful at this level. And it's hard to build that type of surrounding talent after giving up all that capital in a trade.

It’s hard when your owner is trying every cheat code in the book for success. The Panthers STILL have not had that tank season they desperately needed. And now they trade to get a pick they should’ve naturally had for a while now. That’s the issue - always band aiding a team instead letting things happen naturally to properly rebuild like many other teams do. But Tepper is a path maker and ‘smarter’ than that.

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Just now, onmyown said:

It’s hard when your owner is trying every cheat code in the book for success. The Panthers STILL have not had that tank season they desperately needed. And now they trade to get a pick they should’ve naturally had for a while now. That’s the issue - always band aiding a team instead letting things happen naturally to properly rebuild like many other teams do. But Tepper is a path maker and ‘smarter’ than that.

Hey, we might get that tank season now. Unfortunately it's after we traded that 1st rounder away.

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it's both.  we have a bad playcaller.  Which never helps and offense. 

and then on top of that, we have weak skill talent around Bryce.   Our entire offense is made up of guys that are supposed to be complementary players.  Backfield to WR.   Given the lack of talent around Young you essentially have to have a good playcaller and creative scheme. 

so with me it basically starts at coaching.  The rookie with the most above the shoulders was lining up behind the guard at one point to take a snap.  Coaching has failed him early.   Too many bad spots over and over.  This offense essentially requires a high functioning vet given how bland it is and weak it is on talent. 

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1 hour ago, AceBoogie said:

It’s going to be real hard for you to walk back this Bryce hate LG. 

It’s weird to see this take out of you as big as a Cam fan as you were/still are. Cam in 2011 was an anomaly. I liked Young even though the size was a potential issue. I think I mainly just wanted a rookie and was willing to believe in our vast staff QB knowledge that Young would be really good. It’s hard to say what’s to blame the most, Reich, WRs or Young, but you’re lying if you haven’t watched all his deeper throws and noticed serious accuracy issues. He’s not Cam or even close to him on the deep ball. Here’s hoping he settles into a Wilson or Brees like career.

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My resentment is based upon the hype our all-star coaching staff placed on Bryce all off-season. How he is a Steph Curry, poised, cerebral and generational player with unique arm “elasticity”, etc. You can’t make those types of proclamations for months and expect the fan base not to revolt when he looks like absolute ass - meanwhile AR, Stroud, etc. are establishing themselves as potential franchise QBs with WORSE ROSTERS around them. 
 

 

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There's no way to tell on Bryce right now. Absolutely no way to tell, in either direction. Right now he looks like a rookie QB thrown into the fire early on. He's had a few interesting moments and a ton of ouch plays. That's really perfectly normal.

Me, I'm looking at the rest of the offense and thinking there's just not much there. 

Sanders is ineffectual and is being outplayed by Chuba Hubbard. Double H is well, meh as a TE. Our receiving corps can be speed clocked by a calendar. We have three decent pro-level offensive linemen and two back-up level guards that have little to no experience and it shows. 

And our play calling just seems, well, boring, bland and uninspired.

On defense, we've got some very good players but we are losing a starter per game right now.  We'll be deep into the back ups if this rate continues. Still, Evero seems to be getting the schemes right and that's something.

Gosh, I hope it gets better, but I've been saying it for a couple of years now that Fitterer isn't the guy for us and he can't pick talent. I'm afraid that now that he isn't shackled to Rhule, he's going to prove me right and that there's just no excuse.

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5 minutes ago, USDepartmentOfSavagery said:

My resentment is based upon the hype our all-star coaching staff placed on Bryce all off-season. How he is a Steph Curry, poised, cerebral and generational player with unique arm “elasticity”, etc. You can’t make those types of proclamations for months and expect the fan base not to revolt when he looks like absolute ass - meanwhile AR, Stroud, etc. are establishing themselves as potential franchise QBs with WORSE ROSTERS around them. 
 

 

I just feel duped and yeah, that pisses me off. This "all-star staff" looks just like Rhule and company. Our super processing football savant rookie QB looks like Jimmy Clausen. I understand the need for development and getting systems in place, etc. I just really wanted to see signs of competence from our coaching staff and some flashes from our rookie QB that we mortgaged the franchise to draft showing the talent you need at QB to compete for SBs in the NFL. 

It's still very early on but I'm still waiting on any signs of either.

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    • A lot of people have been slobbing all over this last draft but I hate the way that Fitterer/Morgan have built this offense since drafting Bryce. Anyone with eyes knew our IOL was crap but we didn't invest there and instead took project receivers and an injured RB. If you want a lesson in how build for your QB wrong, IMO, this was it. Draft him, protect him, THEN get him weapons. Its pretty much a rule, draft interior linemen, pay tackles. We're paying everyone. We had the opportunity to draft a center instead of Brooks, or perhaps instead of trading up for XL, trade back and take 2 guards/center. We could have paid Lewis and still drafted 2, but Hunt at 100m was just an overpay. And it's not like the guys many of us were begging us to draft were long shots. They're solid starters from day 1. Injuries happen. That's why all your starters can't be high value players. You need rookie contracts mixed in to be able to absorb those inevitable losses on the line. An offensive line playing an entire season together is an abnormality.  Factor into that also paying Moton 44m this offseason with a huge signing bonus when we didnt need to do right now to do him a "solid".  Now we have to sign Icky and possibly Bryce and it's a mess with more money tied up in the offense, inevitable cuts and dead cap coming. That's not even factoring in shifting Corbett to C last year after major injury to start at a position he's never played for an NFL season. It's all stuff that was foreseeable and pretty easily avoided.  The $$ and picks we've spent trying to surround Bryce outside of Tmac (Mitchell and Horn are TBD) have been used inefficiently IMO. Smarter drafting and FA with the line could have let us get more reliable weapons than XL and Sanders in FA. It might not be popular opinion, but I'll take a Bersin with hands that can get 6-8 85% of the time vs a big play XL with greasy fingers.  The part about hitting guys in stride was more about placement, which Bryce has struggled with. Obviously not every route is run to be hit in stride, but they do need to have the ball placed well to give the receivers a chance to do something after the catch. I just used Hill as an example because he's the biggest YAC threat I could think of over the past 5 years.   Receivers can feast on dink and dunk if it's schemed right. But to make it work, that vertical threat has to be there, if not the deep pass then the high speed routes that can spring someone for the huge YAC to keep the safeties from cheating into that 20 yard box all game.  I hope DC and Bryce can keep up what they did in the last game and it isnt just an Atlanta thing. But no matter what, I really want to see some better long term strategy coming from the FO. 
    • Eh. Don't speak it into existence lol. We've got enough on our plate just trying to overcome the bad juju of what has been our historically bad perfomances more often than not in primetime over the course of 30 years. We're overdue for a statement primetime game!
    • Passing chart had 3 over 20 I think. The Legette TD and another completion and an incompletion. All over 20 yards.  An incompletion at 19 or maybe 20 yards. So you could technically probably say 4 throws 20 or more.     That seems high to me compared to the norm. 45 throws and 10 YPA are both way high.   
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