So, just what is it that makes a QB "elite"?

[Brooklyn 3.0]

Ever since Cam, the Huddle has had differing opinions on the Panthers QB. When they play great, he's a stud. When they play poorly, he either sucks ... or "it's not his fault".

I'd like to focus on that last bit. When Cam played poorly, it was "the scheme sucks", "the O-line sucks", "the WRs suck", etc. And now it looks as if Young is getting some of this same treatment. I am on the Young Doesn't Have It side of things, so I ask those that are rooting for him (or think there are reasons for his poor play) to answer a question for me. And those that think Young stinks can chime in too!

WHAT MAKES A QB ELITE?

At Bama, Young had it all. Elite coaching, an elite O-line, elite WRs, and elite RBs. At Carolina, he does not. So ... was Young simply an avg QB on an elite Bama team? Or was he elite too? And at the NFL level, how can we truly judge QBs? Are the ones that are "elite" (Mahomes, Allen, Hurts, Jackson) elite because THEY are elite? Or ... is it the team around them?

Of course Young would play better if the O-line was elite (I heard a rumor it was), had better WRs, had an elite coach, etc. But ... if say, Josh Allen were our QB and sucked ... would the narrative still fit? What if Allen were here and got us wins? Then what's your reasoning?

I think if you are an elite QB ... you're an elite QB. Mahomes, for example, loses from time to time (0-2 right now). Is he a good QB? Or is his team carrying him? His team is of course not avg. Young's is avg, but it does not look like he can overcome an avg supporting cast. 

ELITE QBS CAN!

So how can one truly identify if a QB is elite or not? I mean ... Daniel Jones is looking pretty decent right now for the Colts. Our old pals Baker and Sam are doing pretty well ... so that definitely fits your narrative. But ... lots of people ragged on them here. So, are they playing well now because they are good, or because they're in a better situation?

I'll end my ramble here, Young should be able to play better with what he has seeing as how he was a #1 pick. He is not doing so. If the team ever puts all the pieces in place and he turns it around, cool. But the team will never do that. So it's not a sin to say Young stinks ... because he does. It doesn't make you less of a fan of the Panthers to admit to this. You can see his struggles with your own two eyes. Just try and answer in your own head what makes a QB elite and then ask if Young has that.

Sorry for the word fort.

[chknwing]

[tukafan21]

It's much tougher to say what makes a QB elite, because there can be so many definitions of it.

But you know what makes a QB unable to be an elite QB?

Being 5'10", 190 lbs, and not having a single even average physical trait for an NFL QB.

Period.

[CRA]

I’m not sure if I can define elite but if Bryce’s career ended today….

we would be debating the Clausen, Carr section of the Panthers rankings and where Young plugs in.  Which is below the Teddy, Allen section.  

[toldozer]

Just now, tukafan21 said:

It's much tougher to say what makes a QB elite, because there can be so many definitions of it.

But you know what makes a QB unable to be an elite QB?

Being 5'10", 190 lbs, and not having a single even average physical trait for an NFL QB.

Period.

He ain't 190 pounds get fuging real

[frankw]

1 minute ago, CRA said:

I’m not sure if I can define elite but if Bryce’s career ended today….

we would be debating the Clausen, Carr section of the Panthers rankings and where Young plugs in.  Which is below the Teddy, Allen section.  

Pretty much.

[frankw]

1 minute ago, toldozer said:

He ain't 190 pounds get fuging real

175 at best and that's being nice.

[Eazy-E]

Basically the best trait a QB can have is making the players around him better. Everyone is going to have a bad game from time to time. 

Football is a team sport but the QB position is the most important on the field. If your QB can’t perform what is asked of him and also elevate the guys around him you are going to lose more games than you win.

If you have a QB that can do that and also surround him with elite talent then you are more than likely a Suberbowl contender.

[SmokinwithWilly]

I think one of the contributing factors was he was not playing against NFL caliber level players every position, every down, every week. Alabama had an advantage most weeks on the field. In the NFL that gap in talent is much smaller, and that makes judging the ability for college players to transition to the NFL so much harder. 

[45catfan]

6 minutes ago, toldozer said:

He ain't 190 pounds get fuging real

Or 5'10".

[OldhamA]

12 minutes ago, Brooklyn 3.0 said:

Ever since Cam, the Huddle has had differing opinions on the Panthers QB. When they play great, he's a stud. When they play poorly, he either sucks ... or "it's not his fault".

I'd like to focus on that last bit. When Cam played poorly, it was "the scheme sucks", "the O-line sucks", "the WRs suck", etc. And now it looks as if Young is getting some of this same treatment. I am on the Young Doesn't Have It side of things, so I ask those that are rooting for him (or think there are reasons for his poor play) to answer a question for me. And those that think Young stinks can chime in too!

WHAT MAKES A QB ELITE?

At Bama, Young had it all. Elite coaching, an elite O-line, elite WRs, and elite RBs. At Carolina, he does not. So ... was Young simply an avg QB on an elite Bama team? Or was he elite too? And at the NFL level, how can we truly judge QBs? Are the ones that are "elite" (Mahomes, Allen, Hurts, Jackson) elite because THEY are elite? Or ... is it the team around them?

Of course Young would play better if the O-line was elite (I heard a rumor it was), had better WRs, had an elite coach, etc. But ... if say, Josh Allen were our QB and sucked ... would the narrative still fit? What if Allen were here and got us wins? Then what's your reasoning?

I think if you are an elite QB ... you're an elite QB. Mahomes, for example, loses from time to time (0-2 right now). Is he a good QB? Or is his team carrying him? His team is of course not avg. Young's is avg, but it does not look like he can overcome an avg supporting cast. 

ELITE QBS CAN!

So how can one truly identify if a QB is elite or not? I mean ... Daniel Jones is looking pretty decent right now for the Colts. Our old pals Baker and Sam are doing pretty well ... so that definitely fits your narrative. But ... lots of people ragged on them here. So, are they playing well now because they are good, or because they're in a better situation?

I'll end my ramble here, Young should be able to play better with what he has seeing as how he was a #1 pick. He is not doing so. If the team ever puts all the pieces in place and he turns it around, cool. But the team will never do that. So it's not a sin to say Young stinks ... because he does. It doesn't make you less of a fan of the Panthers to admit to this. You can see his struggles with your own two eyes. Just try and answer in your own head what makes a QB elite and then ask if Young has that.

Sorry for the word fort.

 

Evaluating quarterbacks is incredibly complex, which is why we see so many busts. It’s a combination of factors, and even then, you're trying to project how someone will evolve under pressure in a system that may not suit them.

At a fundamental level, a QB has to clear a baseline of physical and mental traits. Bryce Young, for example, doesn’t convincingly clear either. Physically, you need size, arm strength and functional accuracy. Mentally, you need processing speed, adaptability, and the ability to operate under pressure.

Even if a QB is in the wrong scheme - Rich Gannon in an Air Coryell system, for instance - you should still see flashes that indicate he’s an NFL-caliber quarterback. Scheme fit is one of two key factors that can elevate a QB’s performance. The other is how they mentally approach the game.

And that’s the hardest part to quantify during the draft process. The elite QBs know where every player—offence and defence—is supposed to be on any given play, and they can adjust when things break down. The very best are obsessive about film study and mechanics. Brady flew in his personal QB coach during the season to fine-tune his footwork. Brees completely rebuilt his throwing motion after shoulder surgery.

That level of dedication separates the good from the great.

[Castavar]

28 minutes ago, Eazy-E said:

Basically the best trait a QB can have is making the players around him better. Everyone is going to have a bad game from time to time. 

Football is a team sport but the QB position is the most important on the field. If your QB can’t perform what is asked of him and also elevate the guys around him you are going to lose more games than you win.

If you have a QB that can do that and also surround him with elite talent then you are more than likely a Suberbowl contender.

100%

Cam elevated EVERYBODY around him. Ted Ginn Jr was nothing but a decent KR/PR before coming here. Devin Funchess was a fuggin TE in college, Philly Brown was never to be heard of again after leaving, etc. This MF was throwing dimes to practice squad players in the playoffs (who was it Kaelin Clay I think?). 

QBs like Cam, Mahomes, Lamar Jackson, Josh Allen..........you put them on ANY team and they instantly make that team competitive. That is the mark of a true elite QB. QBs like Darnold, Jones, Kirk Cousin can be a decent system QB, but they won't single handily make your team better. 

Edited 3 hours ago by Castavar

[LinvilleGorge]

An elite QB is a guy that no matter what else is going on with roster holes, injuries, whatever makes you think going into any game "we gotta shot because we have THAT GUY playing QB". It's pretty much that simple IMO.

[onmyown]

Well we start with the basics, physical ability. Mayfield, Jones and especially Darnold all have that basic. Young does not. Not a total loss, Murray doesn’t either, but it’s one more thing to overcome. 

Next is mental or ‘celebral’. Awareness. Focus. Being able to read the defense. I don’t believe Young really has any of this either. He’s pretty predictable as a result. Throwing it away on 4th in the red zone for example.

Next would be vision. I’d say Young has a little of this. He can be elusive. But he also looks clueless holding on to the ball as long as he does. 

Toughness is next. I’ll give him this one. He has it. So did Darnold. And Mayfield. He is somewhat resilient, but he will panic.

Leadership and confidence seems to be lacking. Taking control. I don’t see it but these things are hard to judge sometimes.

All in all I don’t see it. I think aside from being homers people around here only really watch the Panthers. In watching every game I can, even mid QBs look good in comparison.

Kind of how Young looked at the end of last year, not elite but competitive.

But lastly and over everything, Young has regressed quick and that is probably the biggest thing that separates elite QBs.