My Grade on our Draft

[cookinbrak]

2 hours ago, OceanPanther said:

It appears those who are( were ) in love with Fields will not like our draft.

That's pretty much it. They don't realize that we have a QB.

"If he does well, we're gonna look like idiots!"

Every team in the NFL passed on Tom Brady 5 times. No team except the Raiders had a shot at Jamarcus Russell.

[FuFuLamePoo]

15 hours ago, Doc Holiday said:

Overall draft Grade: C

1. Horn. Based on Horn alone it’s an A. But based on our team needs this pick was an F. Wasting a top 10 pick on a CB when you have serious needs at more prominent positions can’t be said to be anything but a failure of a choice.

2. Marshall. Again another wasted pick, you pick to address current needs, not one that may arise in another year. Spending a 2nd on a maybe 3rd option on our WR roster for this year is an absolute joke. F
 

3a. Christensen. Solid pick for the 3rd, actually addresses a team need. A+
 

3b. Tremble. A Meh so what Pick, better options available, really could care less about the pick.

anything after the third s a project so

i will it grade that, but overall grade for the Panthers is a Big fat F. My most hated draft in recent memory.

I loved our draft last year. This year? Terrible.
 

 

You just don’t understand it. Like, at all.

People who act like WR wasn’t a need are fuging asinine. Robby is gone next year and David Moore is like a #4 at best. Marshall was a first round talent at the end of the second.

[Doc Holiday]

13 minutes ago, FuFuLamePoo said:

You just don’t understand it. Like, at all.

People who act like WR wasn’t a need are fuging asinine. Robby is gone next year and David Moore is like a #4 at best. Marshall was a first round talent at the end of the second.

I didn’t argue the talent, only that you draft for current needs, not one that may appear in a year. We made this mistake before with Butler. Wasted a first on him. 
 

draft to address your current needs.

[Doc Holiday]

15 hours ago, Seltzer said:

I've agreed with a lot of your posts over the years, but I 100% disagree about this draft.

I think all 4 picks in the first 3 rounds were solid, and I think Horn will be Pro Bowler sooner than later... he is that good IMO

Passing on Fields is a legitimate complaint, and if he becomes special this overwise awesome draft will always be maligned.

Trading back allowed us to fill much needed depth. I think this is going to be a much better deal this year with the 17th game.

I don't know how at first glance this draft doesn't warrant an "A" or even "A+" given the needs we have addressed and the talent across the board we added (granted on paper for now)

I think this draft sets us up nicely for next year's Free Agency where we will have a boatload of cap and can add some more top end talent to this young core.

I still have no idea how this season will go, primarily bc Darnold, but at least on paper, I think this team is substantially more talented than last year's.

And a large part of this is bc of this draft.

 

I can sum up the Horn pick with one example, would you rather have Luke Keuchly in His prime or Josh Norman in his prime?

I don’t know anyone here who wouldn’t take Keuchly, and that’s my point MLB > CB. Plus if Horn does turn into what we hope he will be once he is off his rookie contract he it will be cost prohibitive to keep him.

we had a chance to pick the best LB’er in the draft but instead took a CB(that may also be the best CB).

we have also been trying to replace Gross for years and we had our chance again and passed again. 

I’m sure Horn will turn out fine. I’m not knocking the player, only that we had far bigger needs and spent the pick on a Luxury position. CB’s in the first are completely fine when you have other positions of need filled. LT and MLB are just straight up more important without question.

then our second round pick as I said before issue again isn’t talent. But he was drafted to address a need that “might” arise in a year. And that’s why it’s a terrible pick. You a draft of fill current needs, here I’d rather we had addressed Tackle or maybe drafted a Safety. Positions we need help at now. Instead we drafted what would be our 3rd or 4th option at receiver with CMC (who everyone is forgetting is on the team and has had 100 catch season before) back? Terrible pick based on team needs. 
 

the only pick which truely addressed a current need on the team in a big way was Christensen. And he’s probably going to be a project for now anyway.

[OldhamA]

7 minutes ago, Doc Holiday said:

I can sum up the Horn pick with one example, would you rather have Luke Keuchly in His prime or Josh Norman in his prime?

I don’t know anyone here who wouldn’t take Keuchly, and that’s my point MLB > CB. Plus if Horn does turn into what we hope he will be once he is off his rookie contract he it will be cost prohibitive to keep him.

we had a chance to pick the best LB’er in the draft but instead took a CB(that may also be the best CB).

we have also been trying to replace Gross for years and we had our chance again and passed again. 

I’m sure Horn will turn out fine. I’m not knocking the player, only that we had far bigger needs and spent the pick on a Luxury position. CB’s in the first are completely fine when you have other positions of need filled. LT and MLB are just straight up more important without question.

then our second round pick as I said before issue again isn’t talent. But he was drafted to address a need that “might” arise in a year. And that’s why it’s a terrible pick. You a draft of fill current needs, here I’d rather we had addressed Tackle or maybe drafted a Safety. Positions we need help at now. Instead we drafted what would be our 3rd or 4th option at receiver with CMC (who everyone is forgetting is on the team and has had 100 catch season before) back? Terrible pick based on team needs. 
 

the only pick which truely addressed a current need on the team in a big way was Christensen. And he’s probably going to be a project for now anyway.

Wait, did you just call CB a luxury position?

Have you SEEN the numbers bang average WRs and QBs are putting up these days!?

[mrcompletely11]

59 minutes ago, FuFuLamePoo said:

You just don’t understand it. Like, at all.

People who act like WR wasn’t a need are fuging asinine. Robby is gone next year and David Moore is like a #4 at best. Marshall was a first round talent at the end of the second.

Its not an immediate need.  In looking at the draft my only complaints would be picking the best LT at the top of the 2nd and probably Cox instead of the RB. 

 

Not arguing we didnt upgrade immensely in talent and depth but we still have a pretty big ? on the oline.  While we did add more pieces I just want to keep building on it.

[OneBadCat]

32 minutes ago, Doc Holiday said:

I can sum up the Horn pick with one example, would you rather have Luke Keuchly in His prime or Josh Norman in his prime?

I don’t know anyone here who wouldn’t take Keuchly, and that’s my point MLB > CB. Plus if Horn does turn into what we hope he will be once he is off his rookie contract he it will be cost prohibitive to keep him.

we had a chance to pick the best LB’er in the draft but instead took a CB(that may also be the best CB).

we have also been trying to replace Gross for years and we had our chance again and passed again. 

I’m sure Horn will turn out fine. I’m not knocking the player, only that we had far bigger needs and spent the pick on a Luxury position. CB’s in the first are completely fine when you have other positions of need filled. LT and MLB are just straight up more important without question.

then our second round pick as I said before issue again isn’t talent. But he was drafted to address a need that “might” arise in a year. And that’s why it’s a terrible pick. You a draft of fill current needs, here I’d rather we had addressed Tackle or maybe drafted a Safety. Positions we need help at now. Instead we drafted what would be our 3rd or 4th option at receiver with CMC (who everyone is forgetting is on the team and has had 100 catch season before) back? Terrible pick based on team needs. 
 

the only pick which truely addressed a current need on the team in a big way was Christensen. And he’s probably going to be a project for now anyway.

Horn matches up with the best WRs in the league though. We need a guy who handle Evans, AB, Thomas, Jones.  If he can buy the d line more time then we should be racking up sacks with the pass rushers we have. 
 

Jackson is no slouch either. Luke was a HOF LB but we are seeing a trend of MLBs retiring early.

I see where Luke’s advantage was his ability to play chess with QBs but he’s the only one to ever do it on the level he did. It’s not something that will be replicated.

[Missouri Cat Fan]

2 hours ago, bigdavis said:

I commented late on a previous thread, and doubt many of you read this, so I will repeat it here.  My thought on Tremble is that he is a big piece of the puzzle that -- now assembled -- will show a pretty unstoppable offense.  He is not a skill player; he is an enabler that will serve to heighten their skills.  They also serve who only block.

 

This is a FANTASTIC scheme fit!

You guys who are fixated on his hands, his drop rate, etc. are way off the mark.  He wasn't drafted to catch passes.

There's been talk about Armah and Tolbert, but they're not the comparisons to make.  Go back further, back to the days of Double Trouble (probably a lot of you weren't around then)  How do you think Stewart and Williams gained over 1,000 yds each in 2009?

It was because of the mammoth holes in the DL that were created by Brad Hoover.

("Hooooov")

This young man loves to block like Hoover did, and CMC will be looking at second level space like never before.  Or put the kid in motion from the right side and let him chip the DE to help out our LT.

This is a brilliant draft choice, and fits our scheme maybe better than it would any other team in the league

Hooooov is my all time favorite panther of all time. Loved his grit and his do my job attitude. And he could fill in when their were injuries with "double trouble" not that he would produce big numbers but he always pulled his weight. Miss ol 45. 

[chbright]

Grade: A-

Horn- B+ : love the player. He is 100% a legacy pick that has production shutting down SEC guys (NFL minor league). He is well regarded by real tacticians at the position such as Richard Sherman. He is a gritty hard nosed guy to boot. So why not an A, value here after seeing a few trades in the following picks. If he was a generational guy, yeah you got to stay and get him. But I'm not that sold on Horn as such. Now the pick will forever be judged against Fields/Darnold as well. If Fields hits and Darnold does not, this will always be judged against horn regardless how horn plays.

Marshall- A++: again this is a player I loved. So why a WR when Moore and Anderson are on the squad? #1, he has 1a talent, 2nd he is cheap for the next 4 years, 3rd Anderson is under contract for 1 more year and Moore is only cheap for this year so you can't pay both and needed the next guy. This is a guy the star studded 2019 LSU squad marked as the guy with the highest ceiling overall, not Chase,  nor Jefferson, but Marshall. Production this year was great for a solid stretch. What's funny is he was expected to be other worldly with arguably ba much less talented team and QB, so always laughed when he didn't dominate every quarter of every game and fans got upset. Remember he is super young too and will also stand to improve on his already pretty damn good ability. Now factor in we made 2 trade backs and pick up a lot of 3rds and still got him. All around fitterer killed it here in the 2nd. 

Christensen-B : a lot depends on what you view him as. I think we view him more as a LT, so only a B from me. I think he is a little overrated at LT as he was old for the NCAA, little short armed as a LT, not the best level of competition last year (his highest ranking as a blocker by far). I think he is a good athlete and pretty polished. Little stiff though. Personally I think he was a top G prospect, right there with Vera. If we keep a zone system and plugged him at LG, I'd give this a higher grade.

 

Tremble- B-: honestly like the player as an early gadget guy at a minimum. Much of the issue here is fit in the system as a 3 down guy, and I don't see that. Another young guy with good athleticism vs others and his position. I get the hate here from a value/fit perspective. Also must say he is a load as a blocker, something we have missed for a long time in the TE/FB/H-back role. This will forever be a hotly debated pick.

Hubbard- A-: Baby CMC. yeah he is a well rounded RB as shown in OSU. needed insurance behind CMC and a rotational RB. hyper productive early in his career. Averaged over 6ypc as a freshman and sophomore. Ran for 2k yards in 13 games in 2019, 21 TDS. last year was down and hurt his stock. Needs tiki barber school of ball security training. Waaay too many fumbles. Also not a pile driving back (an issue with CMC at times). I think if given a lighter workload and time he is going be a super back to help keep CMC fresh. Still need a bruiser short yardage guy.

Nixon- A. Only issue I have is one year wonder. Otherwise fantastic. Great athlete even if he isn't as strong as some point out. Long arms, and can get skinny to shoot gaps. Little too focused on getting in the backfield at all costs. Imo he is extremely versatile: 3 tech or a 5 tech. Could easily see him as an end in a 3-4 with those long arms.

Taylor-c: this pick is a senior bowl pick. They saw him got to know him, think he is coachable. Good size mediocre measurables. His tape in 2019 left a lot to be desired with some big lapses for big plays. But this late meh, I did have a few DBs higher, liked a little more OL help too, but I'm no scout.

Brown-b: so, this is 100% boom bust but hey it's the 6th round. He isn't really our normal zone guy, but hey, new guard in town so maybe they want to go to a power scheme (but that's not in line with our FA pickups so). Personally I liked stone forsythe a lot more and UDFA Aldrick Jackson too.

Smith- A: Nice slot guy, tough as nails. Returner too. Might me a regional scouts recommend guy as this is likely off the top 150 board they had. I hope we don't try to stash him on the PS, as he might get picked up there. Could turn into a sold pick in year 2-3.

 

Fletcher-NA. Not really where I would have gone (Makuamu would have been mine here if not earlier). That said it's a show we are investing in having a better ST unit long term. So I guess cheers to that?

Hoskin-NA: no knowledge on this guy other than long big athlete. Similar athletic profile to Nixon above. Old player still really damn raw. Likely a stash guy and hope you can train him into something useful. Again another interesting length size guy that could be a 3 or 5 tech.

 

Overall A-

Im no scout but think only 3 picks a little questionable with how the board fell, and even then great pickups and trades throughout. Also in the 6th it's a crap shoot anyway and that's about where I had the most differences.

[amcoolio]

17 hours ago, Doc Holiday said:

Overall draft Grade: C

1. Horn. Based on Horn alone it’s an A. But based on our team needs this pick was an F. Wasting a top 10 pick on a CB when you have serious needs at more prominent positions can’t be said to be anything but a failure of a choice.

2. Marshall. Again another wasted pick, you pick to address current needs, not one that may arise in another year. Spending a 2nd on a maybe 3rd option on our WR roster for this year is an absolute joke. F
 

3a. Christensen. Solid pick for the 3rd, actually addresses a team need. A+
 

3b. Tremble. A Meh so what Pick, better options available, really could care less about the pick.

anything after the third s a project so

i will it grade that, but overall grade for the Panthers is a Big fat F. My most hated draft in recent memory.

I loved our draft last year. This year? Terrible.
 

 

Never, ever draft for need in the top 10. Take BPA unless you already have a QB

Also our CB group was statistically the worst position group on the team in 2020

[unicar15]

18 hours ago, Doc Holiday said:

Overall draft Grade: C

1. Horn. Based on Horn alone it’s an A. But based on our team needs this pick was an F. Wasting a top 10 pick on a CB when you have serious needs at more prominent positions can’t be said to be anything but a failure of a choice.

2. Marshall. Again another wasted pick, you pick to address current needs, not one that may arise in another year. Spending a 2nd on a maybe 3rd option on our WR roster for this year is an absolute joke. F
 

3a. Christensen. Solid pick for the 3rd, actually addresses a team need. A+
 

3b. Tremble. A Meh so what Pick, better options available, really could care less about the pick.

anything after the third s a project so

i will it grade that, but overall grade for the Panthers is a Big fat F. My most hated draft in recent memory.

I loved our draft last year. This year? Terrible.
 

 

Horn - A+ if Darnold plays well as I think a true lockdown corner is second only to QB in rarity. The only other player on the board I would have preferred (if Darnold sucks) is Fields. Hence...why it’s only an A+ if Darnold doesn’t suck. 
 

Marshall - A - Needed to replace Samuel. Marshall is a more talented player with higher upside. 
 

Christensen - A - I’m trusting the RAS on this one. If you can find an elite starting guard potential tackle in the 3rd round it’s a home run. I think he’ll be one or the other. 
 

Tremble - D - Looks a lot like the other TEs we already have. Dunno who else I would have picked...maybe another OG? Not thrilled with it but maybe they have big plans. 
 

That’s like a B+?

[thefuzz]

I love the Tremble pick simply for red zone and goal line.  Watch the 9ers play with Juszczyk, that's what we are trying to do.

[CRA]

1 hour ago, amcoolio said:

Never, ever draft for need in the top 10. Take BPA unless you already have a QB

Also our CB group was statistically the worst position group on the team in 2020

Horn went 8 off a combo of talent, highest ceiling and need. 

Pure BPA?  Was probably Smith at 8. 

[bigdavis]

1 hour ago, amcoolio said:

Never, ever draft for need in the top 10. Take BPA unless you already have a QB

Also our CB group was statistically the worst position group on the team in 2020

A good assessment about the CB group.

Here's my overall grade: A+.

This was a scheme based draft, IMO.  They considered where, as they saw it (and how THEY saw it is infinitely more important than how any of us armchair GMs saw it), they needed to address our biggest failings from last year.

Here I am assuming they agree with me on 2 of those failings:

1) inability to get off the field on 3rd and long.  How many times did we play solid D on 1st and 2nd downs, and put the opposition in that bind, only to see them convert with a sideline out?  This is why they took Horn as their #1.  If he can defend passes in those situations (and that's his forte, not INTs), then we force a punt and get the ball back.

2) our RZ scoring was atrocious.  And they addressed that failing in 2 steps -- first, in Rd 2, they picked up Terrace Marshall, who AVERAGED 104 YPG last year, and has never dropped a pass in the EZ.  He has the height we need for corner fades in those goal line situations.  Then, to overcome our inability to pound it in from short yardage, they got the best H-back blocker there is in Tremble.  From these 2 pickups, watch our RZ efficiency number sky-rocket.

After those 3, the rest of the picks are fine -- but those 3 are SUPER fine for what we needed to cure problem areas.