Rhule on QB (Darnold) & my translation.

[top dawg]

6 minutes ago, CRA said:

Rhule is a great college coach.  But there are lots of great college coaches that won't make it in the NFL.  Different animal.   Rhule has never built teams and won in the manner required to in the NFL though. 

Saban went right back to college when he couldn't get a QB in Miami.   No QB?  Saban said it was impossible to win in the NFL and he wasn't hanging around without it.   Miami opted to bring in Teddy/Darnold types.  He said bye bye. 

Great QBs are rare.  So when you have a chance to possibly grab one you need to take the shot.  Love or hate Fields.....that was one of those lotto tickets a team without a QB has to take. NFL runs through the QB. 

 

 

LOL @ Teddy-Darnold types. They're totally different QBs. 

[rayzor]

14 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Giving all that money to Teddy was about the worst possible move we could've made there.

Has Hurneymagic written all over it.

[LinvilleGorge]

1 minute ago, Jorgie said:

No they brought him in because he had tape of him succeeding in the system they run. Not because the “college coaches thought they could coach him up”

Go back and watch his games in New Orleans. They won in spite of him, not because of him. He had one good game and that was against the worst pass D in the NFL at the time

 

[Toomers]

4 minutes ago, Jorgie said:

You’re confused in thinking that rhule dolled out the contract. Teddy underperformed, I think to say that it’s an example of how rhule doesn’t value the qb position, when he was publicly criticizing the teddy’s play makes no sense

  I’m not the confused one. Thinking Rhule had nothing to do with signing Teddy(or any players) is comical. Which moves were Rhule’s? Just the good ones. What was the new Cap guy doing? Who coached him for a year? Who was recommending him to Rhule 6 years before he was hired here? A New HC with a 7/70M contract isn’t letting a lame-duck GM who ruined the team TWICE, pick and decide what to pay his QB. 
 

And what is the “money we will never get back” supposed to mean? Cap space isn’t a use it or lose it. You could have the same exact team and around 100M in cap space, right now.  Value means play/pay. 

[CRA]

17 minutes ago, Jorgie said:

You’re confused in thinking that rhule dolled out the contract. Teddy underperformed, I think to say that it’s an example of how rhule doesn’t value the qb position, when he was publicly criticizing the teddy’s play makes no sense

Teddy was exactly what Teddy has always been.   Rhule to date deserves criticism for the way the overall QB position has been handled to date. 

The Cam thing was weird.  Then he let cheaper alternatives to survive a season walk out the door like Allen and Heineke.  We drastically overpaid Teddy to be a bandaid.  Then we pointlessly threw Teddy under the bus forcing our hand to go sign another version of Teddy.   Then we had one of the top QBs in all of college football fall in our lap and were like.....nah. 

I still like Rhule.  But the man deserves some scrutiny at QB IMO. 

 

[Jorgie]

7 minutes ago, CRA said:

Great QBs are rare.  So when you have a chance to possibly grab one you need to take the shot.  Love or hate Fields.....that was one of those lotto tickets a team without a QB has to take. NFL runs through the QB. 

yes only very fortunate coaches get the opportunity to win with franchise qb’s(Ron with Cam is a shining example of that)

and I agree that the fields situation is very interesting and worth discussion.
 

I think they made the move for darnold because of the uncertainty in landing one of the QBs they wanted in the draft.

I don’t know how the staff felt about him but I personally liked fields and he may very well go on to have a great career, but once they sunk costs into darnold they were caught in a spot. And to their credit I believe Jaycee is a stud 

but yes a lot is riding on darnold not turning the bal over twice a game 

 

[Mr. Scot]

1 hour ago, Sgt Schultz said:

which is I think the trap he may have been tangled in with New York.

Worse than the trap of playing for Adam Gase? 

[CRA]

5 minutes ago, top dawg said:

LOL @ Teddy-Darnold types. They're totally different QBs. 

they have different play styles.  Same tier NFL QBs.  But yes, when all Saban could get was Teddy/Darnold types....he ran back to college football and has discussed it at great length now that he is back in college. 

Joey Harrington? 3rd overall pick? Drafted by a horrible Detroit organization?  That scenario sounds kinda familiar.  Let's give a busted but highly drafted QB a fresh start.  Miami brought him in for Saban.    That was the last straw for Saban.  He left. 

 

[NAS]

I think Rhule proved he's the right coach by getting rid of Teddy instead of trying to convince himself he didn't make a mistake of signing him.  I don't need my head coach to be perfect, but I need him to be accountable and make quick adjustments instead of throwing good money after bad which is what Rivera did for years with many players.

[CRA]

Just now, NAS said:

I think Rhule proved he's the right coach by getting rid of Teddy instead of trying to convince himself he didn't make a mistake of signing him.  I don't need my head coach to be perfect, but I need him to be accountable and make quick adjustments instead of throwing good money after bad which is what Rivera did for years with many players.

was he accountable or sloppy? I personally think the org handled Teddy so sloppy  they were forced into a corner where they simply couldn't have him remain with the team. 

that is coming directly after they handled things poorly with Cam. 

[Jorgie]

10 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Go back and watch his games in New Orleans. They won in spite of him, not because of him. He had one good game and that was against the worst pass D in the NFL at the time

 

They specifically quoted teddy’s familiarity with the system for a reason I’m bringing him in. 
 

Again I would like to reiterate that this originally this discussion was about you implying that rhule somehow just discovered the notion that qb play is integral to success on the football field

[Sgt Schultz]

For all the pining over Fields, does their passing on him mean they don't value the position, or that their assessment of Fields doesn't agree with ours? 

Everything I have read leads me to believe they only interested in two QBs of the "big four," at least at pick #8: Lawrence or Wilson.  Once they figured out they were going to have no chance at them (or at least no chance without selling their souls to move up), they made the deal for Darnold.  Their assessment was that Darnold was their next best option. That is not necessarily a lack of appreciation for the position, it was a talent assessment.

Eight teams passed on Fields after Lawrence, Wilson, and Lance were taken, for whatever reason.  You could probably argue the Niners passed on Fields, too, since they took Lance.  Fields was apparently not the consensus home run pick a lot of us thought.  He may prove people wrong (an added challenge in Chicago), but the Panthers were not the only ones who did not have him graded high enough to be a top 12 pick. 

Once Sewell was off the board, I would have looked at Fields and Slater as the pick.  Apparently the Panthers didn't agree with me on either of them.  It doesn't mean they don't value the positions, it means their assessment of those players was different than mine.  Considering they have a small army of scouts and people in the room when their draft board is put together, I can accept that and not try to draw conclusions from it other than "they don't agree with me on this guy."

FWIW, Hurney didn't agree with my assessments, either.  That, I feel pretty good about.

[1usctrojan]

9 minutes ago, CRA said:

they have different play styles.  Same tier NFL QBs.  But yes, when all Saban could get was Teddy/Darnold types....he ran back to college football and has discussed it at great length now that he is back in college. 

Joey Harrington? 3rd overall pick? Drafted by a horrible Detroit organization?  That scenario sounds kinda familiar.  Let's give a busted but highly drafted QB a fresh start.  Miami brought him in for Saban.    That was the last straw for Saban.  He left. 

 

I distinctly remember Saban saying that there was “too much parity” in the NFL, and why he preferred college coaching.  I like a lot of things about Saban, he’s the greatest CFB coach of all time…..but I did think that reason (and admitting it!) was rather cowardly.  

[Pup McBarky]

Rhule spent a year as a Giants assistant, so he has familiarity with the NFL. But he's never built a winning NFL team, which is the point. One of the reasons, I think, Tepper gave him a 7 year contract is Tepper knew he was a team-builder and smart football guy, but he also probably figured that he'd need a couple of years to learn some hard lessons about being an NFL head coach. 

Rhule is definitely the kind of guy who values teaching. Typically, those kinds of people also highly value learning. Rhule is learning too. I think he knew QB was a much more highly valued position in the NFL. I also think he signed off on the Bridgewater deal because Brady vouched for him and when you can get a QB who, while he definitely has deficiencies, at least knows your system and what it takes to work, you do it. (I think one thing Rhule learned was that Brady's vouching wasn't quite up to his - Rhule's - expectations). Remember, Rhule knew what Brady had done at LSU - passing game coordinator, not OC, that he'd developed a passing game that he learned from interning with New Orleans, and that he was a hot commodity. He had, afaik, never worked with him before.

They are all learning, each other, as well as what it takes to build and maintain a winning NFL franchise. And now they have to learn Fitterer. But I believe we got the right guy and we're moving in the right direction.