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Is the defense really performing that well?

Mr. Scot

By Mr. Scot,
in Carolina Panthers

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Mr. Scot Grand Master

Mr. Scot

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I hear a lot of people talking about this team say, "Well at least the defense is good."

Is it, though? 

The defense I've been watching since Week 4 or so has shown occasional flashes, but they've been far from consistently good and have been basically run over on several occasions.

I know some will say "That's because the offense can't stay on the field". And while it's true they can't, that doesn't really excuse defensive letdowns in the first half or the third quarter after they've had all of halftime to rest and (allegedly) adjust.

I'd throw in that I think praise for Phil Snow is overblown. It only took most teams a couple of very easy adjustments (keep in extra blockers, run at our smaller defenders) to blunt the effectiveness of his attacks. And if he's made moves in an attempt to counter those adjustments, I haven't noticed.

So tell me, is the defense really as good as some are saying or is it just an illusion?

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CRA Grand Master

CRA

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The defense can rush the passer.  Same as last year.   Better at it than last year.  But they are one trick ponies.  

they basically feasted on bad QBs and pass offenses when it gets predictable IMO.  

we benefited from a weak schedule of opposing QBs IMO.  

Brady, Allen and Dak all lead teams to over 30+ points on us.  Even the Vikings with Cousins pulled of 30+.   

* now, granted they had no offense at times to help them.   Which makes their  job hard.   So they are good.   No doubt if paired with a real offense.   But this wasn’t a top 5 Panther D.  Too weak vs the basic run game.  

 

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PNW_PantherMan Grand Master

PNW_PantherMan

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I'll admit that I was on the Phil Snow train way too early.  He's been thoroughly outmatched since the first few games.

We're built to play well against the pass, and the stats reflect that.  I'm not even sure how good we are at stopping the pass, because teams really just need to run the ball to beat us.  Nobody's ever in catch up mode just throwing the ball against us.

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Michael G Mentor

Michael G

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I think its a little bit of both, there has definitely been a drop off. Whether that's due to injuries in the secondary or stiffer competition later in the year I'm not sure (a little of both again I guess).

Earlier in the year our offense scored some. Our rush was better, as was our coverage. The inability to stay in gaps and set the edge (especially on Burns' side) has really been a concern. The recent inability to pressure the QB is starting to be.

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LinvilleGorge Grand Master

LinvilleGorge

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5 minutes ago, CRA said:

The defense can rush the passer.  Same as last year.   Better at it than last year.  But they are one trick ponies.  

they basically feasted on bad QBs and pass offenses when it gets predictable IMO.  

we benefited from a weak schedule of opposing QBs IMO.  

Brady, Allen and Dak all lead teams to over 30+ points on us.  Even the Vikings with Cousins pulled of 30+.   

* now, granted they had no offense at times to help them.   Which makes their  job hard.   So they are good.   No doubt if paired with a real offense.   But this wasn’t a top 5 Panther D.  Too weak vs the basic run game.  

 

This. If we had a good offense I think they'd look a lot better but this is a D kind of like the Manning era Colts. It's built to get after the QB and play with a lead. It's exposed when our offense sucks and can't score so the opposing offense can just run the ball down our throats not feeling pressured to put up lots of points.

 

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onmyown Grand Master

onmyown

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Not good.

Problem is we weren’t playing good teams for the majority of the beginning of the season.

Easily fixable with experience/discipline and a couple key pieces like a DT and LB though. Not enough there to fit the scheme. However considering the resources spent solely on the D, I think it’s a bit behind.

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Kraybrothers Enthusiast

Kraybrothers

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26 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

I hear a lot of people talking about this team say, "Well at least the defense is good."

Is it, though? 

The defense I've been watching since Week 4 or so has shown occasional flashes, but they've been far from consistently good and have been basically run over on several occasions.

I know some will say "That's because the offense can't stay on the field". And while it's true they can't, that doesn't really excuse defensive letdowns in the first half or the third quarter after they've had all of halftime to rest and (allegedly) adjust.

I'd throw in that I think praise for Phil Snow is overblown. It only took most teams a couple of very easy adjustments (keep in extra blockers, run at our smaller defenders) to blunt the effectiveness of his attacks. And if he's made moves in an attempt to counter those adjustments, I haven't noticed.

So tell me, is the defense really as good as some are saying or is it just an illusion?

Yes its good.

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BrianS Veteran

BrianS

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Short answer:  Yes, they are.

Long answer:

Quote

People who try to write off our defense as "living on the first three games" really need to take a harder look.  Here, let me help.

This is a defensive stat sorted by average starting field position.  Basically, we put our defense in a worse situation than any other team.  Whether that is because of poor offense, poor special teams or poor coaching decisions, our defense gets put in the worst starting position of any defense.

image.png.d1d37f6dc86d49bb7e76fcb53314646c.png

However, when you look at yards surrendered per drive and plays surrendered per drive, our defense is the best in the league - still.

image.png.8fc9d39d00b7cc08144785293213ea9f.png

And when you look at points surrendered per drive, we're in the top half:

image.png.73d853baf82dd029cf57e93af243db85.png

 

Bottom line is that our defense has signs of life.  They actually seem to play pretty well until the entire team folds in the 2nd half.  It's not three games that did this.

But when you're saddled with an offense as bad as ours, with coaches who can't adjust in a league as competitive as the NFL you just can't expect miracles.

 

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Evil Hurney Mentor

Evil Hurney

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Defense is much improved (as it should be with the investment given) and I feel that they are a top 10 defense. They seem to do a good job of getting pressure (5th highest pressure rate) and have improved upon their offseason goal of getting off the field on 3rd down.

2020: Opponents converted 49.25% of 3rd down attempts (2nd worst)

2021: Opponents converting 37.86% of 3rd down attempts (10th best)

For reference the best team has been around 32% allowed the past two seasons.

With that said, I do also wonder if a different DC would get more out of them. I think we will see further improvement as the young players get another season under their belt and we get Horn back; JC was playing really really good football.

Edited by Evil Hurney
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