Jump to content
  • Welcome!

    Register and log in easily with Twitter or Google accounts!

    Or simply create a new Huddle account. 

    Members receive fewer ads , access our dark theme, and the ability to join the discussion!

     

Under No Circumstances Should We Trade a Haul for a QB/Pick


tukafan21
 Share

Recommended Posts

The more I think about this situation I think if Young and Stroud go Top 5 we should just sit tight and take Richardson at 9.  He has upside and although I hate taking a college QB with 54% comp percentage he does bring a lot of upside.

If he interviews well and shows the needed desire to really improve his passing he could be a star.  We will probably have to wait on him though or watch him throws lots of INTs early on

Edited by Shocker
  • Pie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

37 minutes ago, Shocker said:

The more I think about this situation I think if Young and Stroud go Top 5 we should just sit tight and take Richardson at 9.  He has upside and although I hate taking a college QB with 54% comp percentage he does bring a lot of upside.

If he interviews well and shows the needed desire to really improve his passing he could be a star.  We will probably have to wait on him though or watch him throws lots of INTs early on

Could possibly have a Josh Allen trajectory.  Bad first two years getting acclimated to the NFL and then boom

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Herbert…should’ve offered more for him.

Next thread up, Panthers haven’t traded to draft a QB since Cam left and how that has worked so far.

Seriously. We know a worthwhile FA isn’t coming here. We also know this team won’t tank properly. 

Soooooo what do you propose exactly? Keep sifting through trash?

I said the day Tepper took over and Cam left this franchise won’t turn around until it started taking chances at DRAFTING a QB and I stand by it.

I’d rather take the chance.

Edited by onmyown
  • Pie 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 1/9/2023 at 9:35 PM, tukafan21 said:

Has anyone ever actually looked back on those trades? 

They NEVER work out for that team, if they occasionally did it wouldn't be a terrible idea to try, but they just don't ever work out.  Two reasons for it, the first being that you give up way too many assets that are needed to build up a bad team and the second is because it's usually not for a sure fire stud prospect, or else the team with the pick would just take them and trade their current QB.

The closest to ever working out would be Stafford last year, and that haul was really more to take back Goff's contract as it was for Stafford.  Plus, without them winning the SB that would be a really bad looking deal right now considering the current state of the Rams and that top draft pick now going to the Lions.

Here's the ones that I can remember off the top of my head from at least recent memory.....

Russel Wilson - Not looking great so far

Deshawn Watson - Not looking great so far

Trey Lance - Not looking great so far

Goff - Sure, they got to a SB with him, but he clearly wasn't the reason why, the best thing he did for them was get them the QB who did win them a SB

Wentz - Sure, they got a SB a couple years later when he was playing like an MVP, but he didn't actually win them the SB and then crapped out right after

RG3 - Maybe it works if he doesn't get hurt at the end of his rookie year, but his body/style of play was never going to hold up in the NFL anyways

Trubisky - Clearly did not work at all

Darnold - best thing he did for the Jets was fleecing us in a trade for him

The only outlier to this where it worked out would be Mahomes, but even at that, I'm not sure giving up a 3rd rounder and a single future 1st rounder to move from 27th to 10th is really giving up a haul for that pick anyways.

Yes, I know we clearly need to fix the QB problem, but doing it this way just never works, we need to find the right free agent or cheaper trade (like Carr maybe), or stand pat and hope to strike gold with our own pick or a minimal trade to move up to get one we like.  

 

Correct, we should not this draft.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, onmyown said:

Herbert…should’ve offered more for him.

Next thread up, Panthers haven’t traded to draft a QB since Cam left and how that has worked so far.

Seriously. We know a worthwhile FA isn’t coming here. We also know this team won’t tank properly. 

Soooooo what do you propose exactly? Keep sifting through trash?

I said the day Tepper took over and Cam left this franchise won’t turn around until it started taking chances at DRAFTING a QB and I stand by it.

I’d rather take the chance.

That's a fair point and simply making this roster better by adding Mayer/DE/WR with our top top plus filling other needs in the following rounds will probably just leave us picking even later next season and cost a lot more to move up and draft a QB.  

I'm pretty sure one of the big 4 (Young, Stroud, Levis, AR) will be there at 9, if they start going quicker then try to trade up and draft one.  If that picks busts try it again in a year or two.  

  • Pie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 1/9/2023 at 9:35 PM, tukafan21 said:

Has anyone ever actually looked back on those trades? 

They NEVER work out for that team, if they occasionally did it wouldn't be a terrible idea to try, but they just don't ever work out.  Two reasons for it, the first being that you give up way too many assets that are needed to build up a bad team and the second is because it's usually not for a sure fire stud prospect, or else the team with the pick would just take them and trade their current QB.

The closest to ever working out would be Stafford last year, and that haul was really more to take back Goff's contract as it was for Stafford.  Plus, without them winning the SB that would be a really bad looking deal right now considering the current state of the Rams and that top draft pick now going to the Lions.

Here's the ones that I can remember off the top of my head from at least recent memory.....

Russel Wilson - Not looking great so far

Deshawn Watson - Not looking great so far

Trey Lance - Not looking great so far

Goff - Sure, they got to a SB with him, but he clearly wasn't the reason why, the best thing he did for them was get them the QB who did win them a SB

Wentz - Sure, they got a SB a couple years later when he was playing like an MVP, but he didn't actually win them the SB and then crapped out right after

RG3 - Maybe it works if he doesn't get hurt at the end of his rookie year, but his body/style of play was never going to hold up in the NFL anyways

Trubisky - Clearly did not work at all

Darnold - best thing he did for the Jets was fleecing us in a trade for him

The only outlier to this where it worked out would be Mahomes, but even at that, I'm not sure giving up a 3rd rounder and a single future 1st rounder to move from 27th to 10th is really giving up a haul for that pick anyways.

Yes, I know we clearly need to fix the QB problem, but doing it this way just never works, we need to find the right free agent or cheaper trade (like Carr maybe), or stand pat and hope to strike gold with our own pick or a minimal trade to move up to get one we like.  

 

Goff has never won a SB.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share


  • PMH4OWPW7JD2TDGWZKTOYL2T3E.jpg

  • Topics

  • Posts

    • In before: "XL sucks, there is no hope." "As long as we have Bryce, none of this matters." My response: "It's X, not XL...we're not discussing apparel sizes, or we'd have to consider XS."  
    • Alain Pierre provides some food for thought on Last Word On Sports regarding Xavier Legette, and his article, though specifically on X, kind of puts me in the mind of QBs being overdrafted and put into situations that they're not prepared for, some ultimately failing due to drafting missteps by front offices who don't necessarily view prospective players within the contextual importance that situations demand.  At this point, Legette looks like a failure in reference to expectations, of not only what a consistently productive NFL receiver looks like, but a first round pick (which he obviously should never have been). But the story on X isn't necessarily completely over. Damn. I seem to be experiencing deja vu...It wasn't X's fault that he was overdrafted, that was a choice by an FO that obviously downplayed actual realized skill vs outstanding measurables and upside. Sure, the FO was impressed by X's one-year feats during his senior season at South Carolina, but it was the NFL god, RAS (a.k.a. Raw Athletic Score), that had Dave Canales's and Dan Morgan's jaws dropping in amazement at the sight of X running around in underwear at the Combine...   "At 6-foot-3 and over 220 pounds, Legette brought rare athletic upside to the position. His breakout season at South Carolina showed flashes of dominance that NFL teams dream of. Projecting forward, many scouts compared his physical profile to D.K. Metcalf, and the Panthers clearly believed they could develop him into a true wide receiver 1 over time. The issue was never his talent. The issue was the timeline. Just a few picks later, the Chargers selected Ladd McConkey, a receiver who may have lacked Xavier Legette’s physical ceiling but entered the league far more technically refined. McConkey immediately showed advanced route discipline, leverage awareness, good pacing, and separation ability.  Bryce Young’s game has always depended on timing and anticipation. His best football at Alabama came with receivers capable of winning through precision rather than pure athleticism. Jameson Williams and John Metchie III were excellent route runners and were able to get drafted in 2022. McConkey naturally fit that style of play. Legette, meanwhile, needed significant development in the exact areas where Bryce Young needed help. The Panthers drafted traits when Bryce Young needed reliability."   Yes, the FO was guilty. The good thing is that the execs appear to be improving. Some of that may be attributed to the hiring of Eric Eager (who was hired right after the Xavier Legette draft). Eager seems to have helped the Panthers FO fine-tune their analytical progress, and, at least on paper, they acquired players with a lot of value during the last draft in regards to actually (what I'll refer to as) "underdrafting" talent relative to their position with value already built in.  Look at Chris Brazzell: He may be more of the quintessential project receiver who was arguably more or less just as raw as Legette was when he was drafted, and with a relatively high RAS as well. The notable difference is value, as Brazzell was a round three pick and Legette was a first rounder.    "Unlike the Xavier Legette situation, Carolina’s environment for Brazzell is completely different. "The Panthers are not asking a raw receiver prospect to stabilize this offense for Bryce Young. "Brazzell enters a much healthier developmental situation with far less pressure. With Tetairoa McMillan established as the primary target and Jalen Coker continuing to settle as the number 2 option...Xavier Legette, Metchie III, and Jimmy Horn Jr. are also still in this rotation, fighting for reps. "It gives Carolina something they failed to give Legette when they drafted him: A developmental runway. "Xavier Legette entered the league with expectations attached to a first-round pick and an offense desperate for answers. Brazzell enters a room where he can spend a year working on his route running, learning the playbook, and earning snaps gradually rather than being asked to become part of Bryce Young’s solution immediately. "And truthfully, Brazzell needs that time coming out of college. Despite his elite physical tools, many evaluators have several concerns about his overall polish as a receiver. "His route tree at Tennessee was viewed as fairly limited due to the type of offense that they run. The receivers are expected to run a lot of choice routes, which are dictated by the placement of the defenders. It doesn’t require technical route-running and an understanding of the playbook needed at the NFL level...   "Context changes significantly when expectations change. "The Panthers are not depending on Brazzell to save the offense. They can allow him to develop slowly, expand his route tree, improve his technical refinement, and learn behind a much more stable receiver room... "Traits become much easier to bet on when patience is built into the plan."   It's all about understanding your situation. I don't agree that it's an inherently difficult choice like the author is suggesting in the following excerpt. At the very least, I think that it should be easier as long as all parties involved stay levelheaded and true to their process.    "That is what makes these draft decisions so difficult. "Every front office believes it can find the next Metcalf, Owens, or Marshall. Sometimes they do. More often, they are betting on a development path that may take years to complete. "The challenge is understanding what your offense needs right now. "If a team has patience, stability, and a quarterback capable of carrying the offense while a receiver develops, betting on traits can make sense. But if a young quarterback needs immediate help, there is a strong argument for prioritizing the receiver who already knows how to separate, create throwing , and earn trust from day one. "That’s why the Xavier Legette-Ladd McConkey debate remains so fascinating. "It was never really a discussion about talent. It was a discussion about timing."   For me, Ladd McConkey was talented enough in his own right, that the gap--the upside--was never as big as people are suggesting between not only McConkey and Legette, but McConkey and other receivers drafted in the first round during that draft. The technique divide between Ladd and X was pretty stark though, as was the roughly 35 pounds, but the speed was identical, the maybe 1½ height difference isn't huge (6' and 6'1"), and it may surprise some that Ladd's RAS (9.34) was also enough to put him in the top 10 percent of receivers since 1987. There is an argument that he would've been a better pick for Bryce and the Panthers, regardless of timeline and talent. But, I still appreciate the thesis (if you will) of the article, as it still provides some hope--perhaps a glimmer at this point, that X's RAS may finally translate to the NFL given more time, but, perhaps more importantly, it explains how Dan Morgan and company are showing improvement, even if it appears somewhat understated. My hope is that continued improvement is palpable by this time next year. https://lastwordonsports.com/nfl/2026/05/30/xavier-legette-draft-lessons/#google_vignette        
    • Won’t stop until people stop buying overpriced poo.
×
×
  • Create New...