Is Norv Turner primarily to blame for all of our end of game fails on offense?

[Mage]

I'm of the belief that, all things considered, Turner has generally done a good job here.  Our offense was super effective prior to Newton's injury and, even with a clearly limited QB in Allen, we've had games where we are able to put up points.

However, Turner's red-zone and short-yardage play-calling is dreadful and it's killed us late in games.  And I would argue such play-calling and approach has been responsible for several losses in the last 2 seasons.

vs Redskins (2018): With 47 seconds left at the Redskins 16 yard line, Newton inexplicably attempts consecutive deep passes to Funchess and McCaffrey on 2nd and 5 and 3rd and 5 despite having 2 timeouts left.

vs Lions (2018): Panthers fail on the 2 point conversion, opting to pass the ball instead of running it in with Cam.

vs Seahawks (2018): This wasn't a red-zone situation, but we had the ball left with 2 minutes left in the game.  We play it conservatively and fail to use all of the Seahawks timeouts anyway, forcing us to kick a 52 yard field goal (which Gano missed) and gives the Seahawks an easy game winning drive

vs Browns (2018): Panthers have 4 plays within the Browns 10 yard line and can't score.  They picked up 6 yards on the first down with McCaffrey, then proceeded to run the ball with Moore and pass the ball the next 2 plays.

vs Saints (2018): Once again, the Panthers have the ball late in the game (1:44 left) with an opportunity to tie or win it outright.  We fail to make it past our 39 yard line... but to be fair by this point Newton's shoulder was dead.  

vs Bucs (2019): Fake Philly...

vs Packers (2019): With 32 seconds left, Panthers have a 1st down at the Packers 13 yard line.  Panthers fail to score despite 4 plays within their 4 yard line

vs Saints (2019): Panthers have 5 plays within the Saints 8 yard line and 8 plays total in the redzone.  Come away with 0 points.

I know it all can't be blamed on Turner, but this is ridiculous.  Extremely winnable situations, other than the Saints 2018 game, and we come away with 0 points in every scenario.  

[ellis]

He deserves some scrutiny on this. Absolutely.

[MHS831]

Norv is limited in that we need 1 more top WR, 3 offensive linemen, and one could argue that the QB play has been erratic, but I reserve judgement on that until the WR is signed and the OL fixed.

So what can you call?  quick passes and run plays such as power and counter so that we get an extra OL on the play side. 

I think he is a bit out of date, but he is who he is, and we could do much worse.  Note that despite the problems, the biggest issues are on defense.

[jfra78]

I think at least this year short yardage has been rough because our line can't get push. We also don't have a true redzone target other than Olsen.

[TheRed]

If we are taking off the homer shades, Turner has been worse than even Mike Shula in some areas.

The Panthers situational playcalling has more often than not been either inconsistent or downright laughably predictable at times. Bright spots are few and far between. Yes there have been issues with the offensive line, but this staff needs an influx of innovation badly. That's just not going to happen with a head coach who is afraid to bring in anyone but his close pals or simply promoting from within.

[Jmac]

You see what Peyton has done with Brees, the hand injury and beat up Oline. Short plays and get rid of the ball very quickly. Allen is no Brees, but that's the choice you have when Oline can't hold a block for 3 seconds.

Norv knows this I'm sure.... or I hope he does.

[Jesse]

I sincerely believe the decimation of our OL and Cam’s absence are the reason we’ve had red zone issues.

 

The thing is teams had to account for Cam as a running threat. So if we we’re in 10 personnel they have to have 7 in the box to account for the OL (5), CMac, and Cam. Now that defensive coordinators don’t have to worry about a threat of a running QB then they have more people on the perimeter to mitigate our passing. 

[SetfreexX]

QB, OL, are the main concerns at this point, if memory serves while 6-2 our red zone offense was fine, and we were scoring  / winning those games with NOWHERE near the level of pass rush that we can generate this year. 

We still have yet to see the offense in general operate at capacity due to injuries. Keep in mind our starting LT was Chris Clark, off a COUCH most of last year. 

I would argue that we are too small across the entire WR group - 5'11 (Moore), 5'10 (Samuel), 5'11 (Wright) - We did add some size in Moncrief (6'2). So to me a lot of the RZ issues are personnel related, I'd also personally like to see a 230 ish HB for the GL as well. Love CMC, just would like to see a bigger back for the GL.  

[hepcat]

Short answer yes with an if, long answer no with a but.

[tiger7_88]

Norv is how Ron learned how to be a 1st-thru-3rd quarter coach.

[Sgt Schultz]

The usual problem teams face inside the five is their offenses are not geared toward it.  High-powered, pass-oriented offenses that run deeper patterns have trouble adjusting.  Some even benefit from false starts and such that back them up five yards farther.

That is NOT our problem.  Our OL would have trouble controlling and pushing a decent college team.  And, we do not employ a bruiser in the backfield in those situations, which means we rely largely on finesse or CMCs ability to get through small openings.  That is the only similarity between us and the offenses I mentioned above.

That is not on Turner.  What is on Turner is that he has always been one of those offensive coaches that believesTDs count for more points when they are pretty rather than punch-in-the-mouth type plays.  I lived in the DC area when he was the HC there and was calling the plays, and while I was not a Redskin fan, it was predictable that he would forego or abandon an effective, grinding offense in favor of opening it up, even when the defense had not given any indication they could stop the grinding.  That was not situational dependent, either.  Third and a yard.....fire away and bring on the punter.

So, it is a combination of the Panthers not having the OL and not utilizing a fire plug running back in those situations (even as a decoy), and the fact that even if they could, Turner might not be inclined to use them.

[JawnyBlaze]

Eh. He’s been light years ahead of Shula, but some of the goal line play calling has been just as bad. Red, I gotta strongly disagree with you about the situational play calling. That’s been the area where he’s been the most upgrade over Shula. My only real complaint has been the goal line stuff. Otherwise, the offense has been mostly just plagued by bad OL and injured/mediocre QB play. 

[LinvilleGorge]

It's not all Norv's fault but he's not blameless either. In particular, our short yardage play calling has been straight trash this season.

[45catfan]

Yep, Norv for all his gadget plays gets really conservative in short yardage/goal line situations.